Episode 47: Anthony Iannarino

Intro 00:01

I've had the privilege of being in and around banking for more than 50 years. Lots of changes during that time. We've gone from Ledger's to laptops, typewriters to technology. One thing, however, remains the same. Banking is a people business. And I'll be talking with those people that make banking great here on Jack Rants With Modern bankers. 

Welcome to Jack Rants With Modern Bankers brought to you by RelPro, and Vertical IQ. Each week I feature top voices in financial services from bankers and consultants, to best selling authors and many more. The goal of this program is simple, to provide insights, success practices and to bring new ideas to the table that you can use to maximize your results. 

My guest is Anthony Iannarino. In my opinion, my guest today is the most thoughtful sales consultant on the planet. It's Anthony Iannarino, the author of 5 bestselling books, including Eat their Lunch, Elite Sales Strategies and Leading Growth. Anthony's life is an amazing journey of resilience. And you're going to hear about that throughout the program

Anthony earned a BA. and a JD. from Capital University and a degree at the Harvard Business School in the Opm program, focused on sales and marketing. Anthony is a much requested, often requested keynote speaker, and he's the co-creative outbound which is one of the nation's top sales conferences.

Anthony has written a post in his The Sales Blog daily since 2007, except for 2 weeks, and he'll explain why today. Our main point of discussion is Anthony's new book. It is an amazing one. It's called Negativity Fast. I'm thrilled and honored to welcome Anthony Iannarino to Jack Rants with Modern Bankers.

Here we go.

Jack Hubbard 00:07

So, as I mentioned, this is the privilege of a lifetime to get to talk to Anthony Iannarino. I mean any consultant you talk to, and you say, what book should I be reading Anthony's name and and all of his wonderful books come up. Thank you for this time, Anthony. I appreciate it, but thanks for having me on. I love doing this with you.

So here we are in early 2024, 2023 behind us with lots of good things and challenging things there. But, as you know. I always like to start out the program with one question. Tell me something good. What's going on in your life? That's good?

Anthony Iannarino 00:45

I don't. The way that I would describe this now is that once you know that a life is about 4,108 weeks on average. And the reason that the number is that and not a higher number, is simply because of suicide and fentanyl those are 2 things that are actually lowering that line. So most of us will live longer than that 4,000, because we're not going to have either of those 2 things happen. I think what's good right now is that people are starting to take mental health a lot more seriously. And I think that there's been a very long time, you know, because I've written the book,  Negativity Fast. 

These things should have been taught to children by the time they're in seventh or eighth grade. So all these practical strategies that you can do it's starting to get attention now and others. I've seen some schools are now doing mindfulness, practices and things like that to reduce stress and anxiety and negativity. And I think it's a really good direction that we're going. And if we can keep going that way, it'll be better for people far into the future.

Jack Hubbard 02:01

I hope you're right, and I hope schools will listen. And take you up on your idea of adding that very important subject to the curriculum, and I also think it's incumbent upon parents to be talking to their kids about things like that, and we'll certainly get into this. But, as I mentioned in the introduction you are the most thoughtful sales consultant, I know. You write thoughtfully. You are a thinking person, you know. Just put stuff out there, and a lot of stuff is based on research. And so I wanna divert a little bit from the book and talk about sales in 2024. What do you see in your crystal ball, Anthony, what's working? What's not?

Anthony Iannarino 02:42

I'm praying. I'm just praying. I'm hoping something changes. But I don't think it will. A few days ago I wrote a post called The Canceling of the Consultative Mind. That's you might know the book the canceling of the American mind and those sort of things about college mostly. But I turned that into something that I think is important for us. We're not teaching people how to be consultative. We're just not doing that. What we're doing is we're transacting. So that's a problem. We have a lack of training, and we have a lack of consultative strategies, even though they exist. But they're not being taught. They're not being developed. And they're not being forced to have a better conversation with clients. That's terrible. 

We've got a terrible erosion in research and reading. So I'm very, very unhappy about what I see, because what we live in right now is a post-literate society. So we now look at tick tock for an education. I mean. Now, if you want to learn how to dance. Great and if you want to get attention, you can do that. But salespeople should really be studying the industries that they're trying to help. They should be trying to understand what kind of headwinds they have right now, and what kind of help are they gonna need? But I don't see very much of that happening at all. Mostly it's just to get a meeting transact and move on to the next thing.

I'm very, very unhappy about people asking their themes to have 400% of their quota in their pipeline. I think if you can't convert at 50%, then you should worry about getting better at as a salesperson before you ever start creating opportunities that you have no intention of even winning. I think those are terrible. We are now more, we're going back to being more supplier centric and the future of B2B sales, in my view. And I'll tell you my view of this, and why the demographics in America are abysmal. 

You need 2.2 1 babies for every woman that has a baby, and we're at 1.6, so we don't even have a replacement rate. So as the baby boomers go into retirement. that'll be, and 2030, there'll be 1 million still working. There's going to be a worldwide depression of demand. So that's what's coming. When you have 80 million people leave the workforce and start to retire and then start to leave the planet. There will be less demand, and that means that we will need less sales organizations, and we'll need fewer. better salespeople. So I'm trying to make this very, very clear to people. 

There will be a time where there will not be this need for this many salespeople and it's a good thing, because not a lot of people want to get into sales. But even more important, the skills that people need to be consultative in a time where everything is uncertain means that you have to be a different kind of salesperson. So that's what I spend all my time focused on. How do I get them to a place where they will be the salesperson of the future, the one that can create certainty, can be consultative and can give people the confidence to move forward with their business. So that's what I see.

Jack Hubbard 06:36

And you do have an excellent training program that people can go to. And we'll talk about how to get to that later on in the program. I'm curious about your take on the whole idea. You mentioned 400% in the pipeline that just smacks of sales management and sales leadership to me. I also see, and I don't know if you're seeing this, a real lack of sales leadership from a behavioral perspective. What are they? What's your take on that?

Anthony Iannarino 07:03

When I hear sales leaders say, training doesn't work. What that means is that the sales managers are not working with their team to create the behavioral changes that would cause them to improve their win rates. And so I think that a lot of this is because we want all this coverage because it makes us feel like we have a chance. But the truth of the matter is this is just you're treating a pipeline like a lottery ticket.

So more tickets mean, I have a greater chance of winning the Mega millions. Right? So it doesn't work that way. This is not a numbers game. I know that a lot of people think it's a numbers game. It is not a numbers game. If you want to know the number that you need to care about.

the number is your win rate. So what percent do you win? That is the number. The rest of this is all effective. So you don't have to worry about getting more. You need to be more effective with the opportunities that you do create. And I think that we have this entirely backwards and we should be focusing very heavily on win rates, and a lot less on how many opportunities that we put into the pipeline?

Jack Hubbard 08:21

Yeah, I've always said, you know, if you, if you hold out your 2 hands. What? Here's how bankers measure the number of calls made, and I've never seen any statistic that would tell you the more calls you make the more sales you're gonna make. That's your lottery ticket example and the sales you make in between. Here are all kinds of coaching moments, coaching opportunities. And we need to think, do things like the math of selling. How many prospects do we get to talk to us? Do we get second appointments with, etc., and then your win rate is really important as well. I appreciate your comments on sales, but I wanna take this in a different direction. Because you did. You wrote great books like, eat their lunch and elite sales, straight strategies. This is a very different book. The negativity fast is just out for just a few weeks. Talk about the inspiration for this book, and why you went this direction instead of another sales book.

Anthony Iannarino 09:19

I don't talk a lot about myself, but I will just be here. So you know I come from A broken family.

So my dad's father left him a single mom, my mom's mom raised 5 kids by herself, a single mom. My dad left when I was probably 6. Something like that. And at some point at about 12 years old,  I would say I liberated myself and I decided I was going to do whatever I wanted to do with my life, because there wasn't anybody to stop me from doing things that I would not be proud to talk about. But I'm a street kid for the most part. And then I'm a street kid that happened to get a lot of education which was really good for me.

And what I will tell you is that after I had a brain surgery, 2 brain surgeries that removed part of my right temporal lobe. I was angry and I don't know if it was psychological or physiological, or both of those things. I have no idea. I just knew I was angry enough to get out of the car and walk across to get into a conflict with another person. Thankfully it didn't happen but because he backed up, and that was a good thing, so I was really angry over time when I went to college. I didn't start college till I was 26 years old

I went through that, and I was in political science and English literature. Politics is

not a very good thing to spend your time on. And I had a bleeder there that said to me.

you should take the Lsat. And I said, Okay. first, I'd need to know what that is. And he said, that's

the law school attendance thing. So you can get into that to get into law school.I got a Dean's academic scholarship to capital university and I was fully paid, everything. So I decided to go. and it was even more political than political science. 

So there's just constant arguing over politics and one day I sat down with one of my mentors and he said, “You know, you're really angry about all this stuff, all this politics and geopolitics, and you can't do anything about it.” You've had 3 children in law school, as my wife's idea, she said. It takes a long time. Didn't take us a long time. It took us one try and another try, and I have 3 children and he said you should just give up all of this and then take care of your family. You're going to have a bigger impact on them than the government ever will, so just let it go.

Worst advice you could possibly get like. Just let it go. How do you do that? What's the execution of letting it go? So I don't know. I say it in the book. Let it go, but I don't know how to tell you how to do it except just give it up and just stop. I didn't take his advice for about 6 months, and then 6 months in, I decided I need to get rid of all of the sources of negativity in my life. So it started with politics. All of that went away. I've not watched cable news since maybe

1996 or something like that. I haven't seen it. I don't know. My wife is constantly unhappy with me, she says. Did you see that story? I didn't see it, and guess what it went on without me. Anyway, I can't do anything about any of these things.

and when I tell people to just give up politics they're like, well, then how am I gonna know what's going on? All the negative people are. Gonna tell you, I promise you they're gonna make sure you know that negative things are happening because they wanna share those things with you. 

So I dropped everything for 30 days. I liked it so much. I did another 30 days. I liked it so much.

I did it another 30 days, but I realized I wasn't putting in positive content to replace it. And that's what I did for the last 30 days, and then, after that, I felt so good I just never went back to any of the negative sources. I just left them alone. I have no idea what's going on in politics. I'm not that interested in it. I'm interested in what I'm supposed to be doing with my 4,108 weeks, of which I have 1,735 remaining. If I get to where I think I'm gonna get to. My grandmother lived in 93. So I'm gonna try to get up there. Yeah.

Jack Hubbard 14:18

I gotta. I gotta follow up on a question. You know, some of the things that cause being a journalist. When I do see some of these interviews, it just bothers me because there's follow up questions just waiting to happen, and interviewers don't ask it, and neither do salespeople. A lot of times. You mentioned about 90 days worth of getting rid of the negativity, and about the last 30 days you said I replaced it with something positive. What was that?

Anthony Iannarino 14:44

Okay, I can give you the list. Every audio program by Les Brown. All of them. I went through all of them multiple times Zig Ziglar, Stephen Covey. I went through all of those people, Anthony Robbins. Brian Tracy, anybody who was positive and success oriented, that's all I listen to. And I just listened to it over and over again. I mean Stephen Covey's stuff has been so good for me. I mean, it always has been so. One of the people that I would like to be more like.

Jack Hubbard 15:26

That's amazing. You've been very open about revealing some things about yourself and It's just wonderful. But in the book you talk a lot about family and what happened to you as a child, and your wayward life as a teenager and a lot of different kinds of things. Your brother. It's refreshing but it has to be a challenge for you to think about. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm a bestselling author. I'm gonna put all this personal stuff out there. What's the reaction Ben has to your readers?

Anthony Iannarino 16:08

So far, everybody who has given me any feedback has said, this is your best book. I don't know how to take that like the other ones. So they like that one, and I think it was because, after writing 4 best-selling books on sales and one on sales management. I felt like I'm free to play in a different way and to have a different type of conversation since it's not for that audience, it's for a wider audience. So I widened the aperture of what I was going to show people. And I thought that was the right thing to do with this type of book.

Jack Hubbard 16:49

Yeah, it's interesting. Well, let's dive into some of this. You talk about negativity being biological, psychological, sociological. And people need to read the book to get the other 2. But I want to talk about sociology a little bit. What do you talk about?

Anthony Iannarino 17:07

Just when you look at how our society is right now, I mean, if you want to start with politics. One thing for certain, we have this divisiveness that probably is the greatest divisiveness we've had since the Civil War, I mean, we have now been according to Fox News and Msnbc, we are now 2 tribes that are being taught and trained to hate each other and I think it's the worst possible thing that we can do. 

So that's part of our society is that we have these 2 now warring tribes who think that somebody who has a different political opinion is my enemy. It can't be your enemy. I mean it. It doesn't work that way. You have beliefs that are not the same as other people. And the good thing about being in America is that we're allowed to have different opinions on these things and we really need a strong right and a strong left so that we can just try to be right in the middle as much as we can. That's very difficult for that. 

So now you have the news. and the news is if it bleeds, it leads right. That's how it goes. We're never gonna tell you good news. There's no good news ever on the television or on the radio. Which is why I avoid both of those things. I think that society now is so different from what it should be at this particular time. Again, I think we're regressing when you start to have this sort of tribal hatred between people. I think that means you're going. You're devolving. You're not evolving. You're going the other direction.

And I think that that's a big thing. And because of social media. And because of the media, there's so much negativity, you're just a wash of it all the time, that's it. And so it's very difficult

to have a good society when you have a post literate society right now, and this divisiveness. Those things, together with what I will call the A/C DC environment, which is the accelerating, constant, disruptive change that we have makes it really, really difficult for people.

Jack Hubbard 19:26

And as a parent with young kids, you talk about social media. It makes it even more challenging. Your chapter winning wants and the perils of social media. You talk about that in your book. You have fairly young kids. I think it would be very difficult today to be a parent in the TikTok generation.

Anthony Iannarino 19:49

It's the social media thing altogether. They grew up with it. and it's not been good for them. I think that Gen. Z. Is gonna have to do something in the future to figure out who they are. So right now. They're different. They're just very, very different. They grew up with all this stuff. They were super protected. I'm one of those parents that I was a street kid. I was out constantly there inside with Xbox and Skype and computers, and they said I'm an outdoor cat. My children are indoor cats, so they are not out in the world the same way that we are. They will have to do that at some point to make a living, I think.

Jack Hubbard 20:38

Challenging cognitive behavioral theory. You talk about it early in the book. And then you refer to Cbt quite often in the book. What is that?

Anthony Iannarino 20:50

It's cognitive behavioral behavioral therapy? It was designed by a guy named Albert Ellis, and he wrote a book about anger. He was really good at anger. If you would watch a video of him.

you would say, that's not gonna do very good now, just because he was a little bit on the edge on, and he was quite let's say I would just say a little too edgy, probably, for today.

But what he was right about is that you are triggering yourself. and that's the part that people have a tough time with. He said, all you need is A, BC, so A is the activating event. So something happens. B is your belief of what it means. And then C is the consequences on how you deal with whatever it is. That was the activating event. So what he told people was, it's not an activating event. It's your belief about it. And if you want to get rid of your anger then what you do is you change the belief. 

Now, my brother who is a let me say this because I have to give you a disclaimer here. He's a comedian. He's an insult comedian. He's a dirty comedian, so I'm telling you this, not because I think that's a good thing but I want you to know if you go to see my brother. I have now warned you that you should not be sensitive, but for some reason, at one time he was sensitive about something, and it was other drivers and one day he told me this guy was trying to swerve in front of him, and he looked at his face, and he realized this guy was too far away from a rest stop.

Now how did he know that? And I asked him, How did you know that? And he goes because it happens to me all the time, because he has to drive all over the place and in that moment he felt this empathy, and he said, he rolled down the window, and he yelled at the guy, go, go! Go! Go and let him go in front of him. And I thought, that's a crazy story, but I just learned something from my younger brother about. He changed his belief. Instead of saying, this guy's got road rage. This guy's a maniac instead. It was like he needed to get out of here really fast and I thought you could do that on anything like you're at the grocery store, and somebody's talking to the cashier, and you want to get out of there. How do you know that that person really just needs to talk to somebody right now, and maybe they're lonely. And if you don't know the research on loneliness it's the same as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. That's what loneliness does to people. It's the same effect on their body and their health. 

So that might make you change your mind about somebody having that conversation and waiting patiently while they did that and I think these are practical strategies pretty easy to do.

You just say she probably needs to talk to somebody. Let her let her go all right. That and that would be fine but I don't think that people know that these strategies exist, which is why I wrote a book, so I can try to share that. There are a lot of things that we know and anything that I say in this book. I will tell you it is cited and it's cited specifically because the claims on gratitude are so great you can't believe it. I mean you can't. You look at it, and you go like that's too many things for gratitude to do, but it does so many things that I had to cite it because I thought people would say,  “There's no possible way that. It will give you better cognitive functioning and it will increase your immune system. It will prevent heart attacks. It will have. You have better relationships with other people. I mean, the list just keeps going on and on and on. It will take inflammation out of your body, I mean, and you see these. And you. You're thinking how powerful gratitude can do all of these things. It can reduce anxiety, stress, and depression. It's just so powerful. So I decided I better cite that.

And then my editor said you should cite every claim and so I cited every claim. So there must be a couple of 100 claims in there. But if you want to find out where I learned what I learned. You can just go find the resource that I used and what I read, and you'll find out that gratitude and all of these things are very well studied in science and we know how to help people with these things.

Jack Hubbard 25:47

Yeah, there. There was a book written in 2023 by an amazing lady board chair of a bank in Virginia. Elizabeth Cattrow, is her name, and she wrote the book called Heart Spoken, and I saw her on Larry Levine's podcast and the whole idea is writing notes to people and it's gotten me in the habit of writing a note a day to somebody. And so a physical note, I mean, we get a lot of emails and all that, and that's fine. But getting a note in the mail and she even left her message because we had to put our dog down, she wrote me a note and said, “Look, I'm so sorry, etc., etc., etc.” That's part of gratitude. And in one of my favorite chapters in the book on Gratitude. You talk about the 3 Blessings and a gratitude journal which sounds initially like, Oh, come on, but you do it, and it works. Talk about those 2 concepts.

Anthony Iannarino 26:52

When I was doing the research for this book. I asked ChatGpt. To find me the citation of something that Seligman had in one of his books, and I thought it was in Hope Circuit. But I thought, that's where it was, and I asked GPT where I could find that citation, and it said, It's on page 1, 18, it's not and then I said, maybe you're looking at the paperback, and I'm looking at the hardcover. And it said, It's on page 64. It's not on page 64. And then I said, it's not on page 64, and then it just read me a story. It wrote the story that I already explained to them, and I couldn't find this. This is the citation, so I couldn't put it in the book. But I will tell you the story. 

There was a woman who was very depressed. And what somebody recommended. It might have been Seligman himself. He made her write a letter to a person that was very, very important in her life and then he sent her to go sit down with that person and read the letter out loud. At the end of that both of them are crying. They're so emotional because of this interaction. They don't still know how long that removes depression, but it removes depression. And I really wanted to cite that. But I couldn't get it. I couldn't find it. I tried my best. It'll probably show up at some other time. But the 3 blessings that Seligman suggests changed what I did. I used to do the gratitude thing in the morning. But then, having gone back over the work of Seligman. he says, do it at the end of the day and don't for me, I think it's better because you're gonna start with your family. You're gonna say the same things over and over. But when you do the 3 blessings, you have to find 3 things that went well for you that day and you have to write those 3 things down and why they went well for you, which will probably mean there's a person that had something to do with it, or at least some of them. 

And now the reason I think you should use a journal is because. you have a negativity bias you have an easier time finding the negative than you do finding the positive. So if you start doing it with a gratitude journal and about a month in, let's say you do this for a month. You write it down. Sullivan only said they had to do it for 2 weeks, and they would have 6 months. I have no idea why, zoom, does that? That's very cool. So if you go back and you look at like a month of your days you're going to go. Good things happen to me every single day, and you can start beating back your negativity bias by counting all the good things that happen to you every day, and if you want to do 5 things, do 5. 

But he said, 3 works fine. and it will remove anxiety, stress, and depression for people that's so simple. But we won't teach it to eighth graders. When they need it. Right. All of these things after I wrote this, I wish I would have done some sort of a supplement. They're teenagers who are just just. They're having a you know. It's tough being a teenager, anyway. And then you have all this negativity. These strategies would be really good for school children.

Jack Hubbard 30:32

Oh, I think that's a great idea. I hope you do that. And I would love to see it in the school libraries, and be taught by teachers and by, as I mentioned before, by parents, really important. So we've only got a couple of more minutes. As I mentioned, you're a thoughtful sales consultant and you are very well read. Who are some of the other folks that you follow, blogs, authors, podcast things like that that you could share.

Anthony Iannarino 31:03

I'm an omnivore. So I'm always looking for something here. Here I'll just tell you what my secret is: what I try to do is what I want for me that I want for you. So let me try to describe this for you. I want somebody who has the expertise and the experience to show me something that I can't see and that's the person that I'm looking for. Ken Wilbur. He's a spiritual guy. He could see things. I can't see. Howard Bloom, who's a science writer. I can't see what he sees until he shows it to me. Morgan Hassel, who just wrote another book after the psychology of money, and it's something about the timeless things that don't change over time. That's a really good view of thinking about how we are and how a lot of things change. But a lot of things don't change either. So I think that's somebody I would do. And then there's a whole bunch of people that I care about Soleb, who wrote the Black Swan anything? He writes. I'm reading that, I'm always just looking for somebody that's got a lens that's clearer than mine and then what I try to do is show you what I can see. So anything that I wrote in any of these books is what I can see that you might not have seen. And so that's basically what I try to do in my work.

Jack Hubbard 32:35

It's outstanding. And one person you didn't mention, but I'm sure you talk to often is your very good friend, Jeb Blunt, and it's my understanding that in 2024 April May, whenever it might be. You're coming out with a brand new book called The AI Edge. Can you reveal anything about that exciting book?

Anthony Iannarino 32:56

Our publishers went to both of us at different times. and I think she came to me first, and she said, Why haven't you written a book with Jeb Blount? And I said, I don't know. she said. Well, I think you should. And she called Jab! And she said, Why haven't you written? " And then all of a sudden we were doing a book together. So we're most of the way done. It's a really good book. And I took a lot of the heavy lifting on prompts. Because I have a lot of prompts, and I've spent a lot of time developing prompts. 

My prompts aren't probably like what other peoples are, because mine are like I have one that I call edit and I have it edit everything without changing my text cause. I wrote it. I don't need that to write it for me, because you wouldn't recognize it as my writing if GPT did it. So I make it do punctuation, syntax, and grammar, missing words and then I will have it take my H2s. For blogs, and give me a better one. 

So I have a whole bunch of things like that, and I have a whole bunch of things for salespeople to use for research and how to do that. And I think it's going to be really important. You can't trust Gpt. It is the way that we describe this Jack is it has a goal, not a soul like it doesn't know. It's just you give it the goal. It's gonna try to give you that goal back and it will try to do that for you, even though it's wrong. And even though it's lying, and even though the data is not right for me. I started to use Bard a lot more because I can get the citations easier and then I have to go look at the citation before I say anything, because it could be wrong. 

So I need to go out and see the real source. And so I have a lot of things like that in the book. This is about us using AI to get back your time so that you can spend it with human beings. That is what we're teaching.

Jack Hubbard 35:08

And may 2024. Who knows but that's kind of the projected date. I'm gonna have you back on. When we talk about that I'll get this wrong. But I wanna say that every year for 13 years you've written a blog every day. I may be wrong over the years. But I do know you do a blog every day. How can people find the blog? How can people get a hold of you? And y'all, you gotta buy this book. It's fantastic. So how? How do we get a hold of you? And what's what? Tell us about your blog?

Anthony Iannarino 35:39

I started writing daily on December 20, eighth, 2009, and with the exception of 13 days that I spent in Tibet, not knowing that they had a really good Internet, because of the Chinese they're like to put the Internet out everywhere. So I was able to make a phone call from base camp on Mount Everest. That's how good they are. But I didn't know that when I when I left here this

December 20th, which is coming up very soon, will be 14 years that I've written every day minus those 13 days. I wake up at 4 0'clock in the morning, and I write 1,000 words every morning and I will do that for the rest of my life. It's been. If you think that I'm thoughtful, it's because I spent so much time here putting something on here on the la, the laptop or on the the blog. So the blog is at thesalesblog.com. and that's a good place to find me. We do have a newsletter you can sign up for. And then I would just also say, LinkedIn is a really good place to connect with me, too.

Jack Hubbard 36:50

Yeah, the places I like best. Yeah, you're on a lot. And it's outstanding. Well, thank you for your time. Anthony. This could be your best book. It's certainly the most unique book that you've written, and y'all have to get over the negativity fast. Anthony, have a great 2024. Thank you so much for being with me today. 

Outro:40:22

Thanks for listening to this episode of Jack Grants with modern bankers with Anthony Iannarino. Be sure to get a copy of the Negativity Fast. It's a great first book to read in 2024. This in every program is brought to you by our friends at Vertical IQ. And RelPro. Join us next time for more special guests, spring marketing sales and leadership insights as well as ideas that will provide your bank or credit union, that competitive edge you need to succeed in 2024.

This Linkedin live shows also a podcast subscribe for the latest episodes of jack rants with modern bankers. And don't forget to leave us a review We're on apple podcasts, spotify Google, play and iheartradio. Among others. visit our website, too. It's themodernbanker.com for more information and to sign for our public library. It's the modernbanker.com/publiclibrary. And make today, and every day in 2024 a great client day!