Season 2, Episode 13: Susan Bell

Jack Hubbard  00:02

Banking, what a great industry. It's been at the heart of our economy since day one, fueling growth and helping America thrive. The Bank of North America was our first bank, established by Robert Morris, way back in 1781 over the years, banks have dotted our landscape in money centers and small towns where community banks have been a great partner. They've helped businesses grow, become a vital part of the communities they serve, and make families feel secure. We've sure come a long way from those old school ledgers, and now we offer cutting edge technology solutions. Regardless of all these advancements, banking remains a people business. 

I've been in and around our industry for over 52 years, racking up over 5 million air miles and spreading the gospel of performance, culture, development and trust based sales conversations. I've had the unique privilege to train and coach over 80,000 bankers, speak at state and national banking conferences in 49 states and teach at 13 of the nation's preeminent banking schools. Along the way, I've made countless friends. Now, as a cancer survivor, it's time for me to give back. One way I'm paying it forward is through this program. Jack Rance with modern bankers. Welcome to Jack grants with modern bankers. I'm Jack Hubbard, chief experience officer of the modern banker and chairman emeritus at St Meyer and Hubbard. Every week I feature special guests to help improve your Commercial and Business Banking sales efforts, your marketing approach, that performance culture, that elusive culture you're looking for and your bottom line, it's all brought to you by RelPro and Vertical IQ. 

Speaking of Vertical IQ, my guest today is Susan Bell. Susan is co-founder, Chief Sales Officer of Vertical IQ. I met Susan along with Bobby Martin, more than 20 years ago when they were executives at first research. Susan had an amazing career in banking as a senior leader, a premier banker branch manager, and by the way, that experience has served her really well in her consulting career. She earned a BA in communications at the University of Delaware, and over the years, Susan has become a tremendous friend, and we really value Vertical IQ sponsorship of this program and Jack grants with Brynne, whether it's local news by county, an overview of a specific industry in a location, full Industry Profile, including a summary of an industry's working capital issues. Thank you. Nick Miller, spot on call, prep questions and more Vertical IQ is what I always recommend to banks to get the best in industry intelligence. Let's talk banking and Vertical IQ with Susan Bell on Jack grants with modern bankers. Here we go. Well, If you know Susan Bell is just one of my best friends in the industry. She and Bobby Martin have been with us for years and years and years, and we've always been so privileged to refer to their great company, and now they're a tremendous partner of ours with Jack grants, with the modern banker. And so it's a real privilege to have Susan Bell back with us again. Welcome Susan. Thanks so much, Jack. It's great to be here. I wanted to start on the way back, though. You know, small businesses get started in a variety of different ways. You know, win trust, where I'm on one of the bank boards, started on a cocktail napkin. And so I'm curious about you. You launched this thing in a coffee shop in 2010 Bobby Martin, Bill Walker, our friend Nick Miller, you started doodling. You were very involved in it, too. 

So, let's take us back to 2010 29 when you and Bobby were kind of thinking about this, what was, what was the impetus to start Vertical. IQ, yeah, thanks. That's something we talk about as our origin story when we talk to banks and other prospects in other industries, is that we started this because we had a company before first research that we sold to Dun and Bradstreet in 2007 and we had sat on the sidelines for a few years. I actually still worked with Hoovers and Dun and Bradstreet for a while, but Nick Miller came to Bobby and said, Hey, let's meet, because I keep hearing that we need a tool that does what first research did, but has more of a focus on cash flow and so looking at industries instead of from an academic view. More in play with how bankers would try to see their clients and their prospects through the eyes and lens of cash flow. And so that's really how it started. 

So Nick had a big part of that. Sat with Bobby, Bill got involved soon after, then I got involved. So yes, it was kind of bringing the old team back together, if you will, and started on a napkin at a coffee shop. You're exactly right, amazing. So you, when you start a business, you have a few people, because you can't pay a lot of people, but you have grown a lot, and you've you've gotten into training, you've more of a formal training process. You've got a great sales team. Talk about the team at Vertical IQ. We talk a lot about what you do, but we really haven't explored the team. Talk. Talk about some of the folks that serve your clients. Sure, absolutely so on the serving our client side, I'll talk about that first, but then we have this other great team that does the research and the product end of things as well, the team that services our clients on our sales team the front end, we have a lot of folks that have experience with SaaS sales. 

They have experience in sales development, and then kind of flow into sales and that. And then we have Paul Hawk, who leads the sales team as the sales manager, who was a banker, so we always had to have to go back to our banking roots, if you will. So he worked back in the days of Wachovia, and he came to us about two, two and a half years ago, I think, and leads that sales team. I am kind of still over the sales area. Of course, I have a banking background as well, but then we have our customer success team, and they are former bankers. I'd say more than half of them are former bankers. Nicole deliso is our trainer. She worked with BB and T for about nine years in multiple capacities, and I think our clients and prospects really appreciate the fact that she can put her banker hat on and or her financial hat on because we deal with accountants and insurance folks, as well as some others that we can talk about in a minute. But she's really good at saying, you know, not just here's how you navigate through Vertical IQ, but here's how you use it like a day as a banker, a day as a lender, a day as a credit underwriter, a day as a portfolio manager. If you're in a small business, you also may carry a bag that's on the consumer side. Some you know, where does this all fit within your daily life and how you go about doing your business? And I think that's super important, because there's that connection if we get it. We sat in your seat not too long ago. So there's that. And then our customer success. We pride ourselves on not just turning on a system because it is, it's a platform, but we coach you throughout the year and we have check-ins with you. 

We look at usage, we look at what's the best use case for your team, and how can we do better? Or how can we create success stories, if it's going really well, and evangelize that within your team? So yeah, it's all we do. I like to say that we do industry research. We're not a company that has many, many things you can buy and put together. This is what we do. So that's our focus all the time, and that's that important focus. And your mission really hasn't changed, certainly, the product has evolved, and we're going to talk about some of the amazing features that you've added fairly recently. But your mission is to help provide great information that's timely and focused and value based. Really hasn't changed. Much has it? Susan, it really hasn't. What has changed is the enhancements of what we do so that, yes, there are more bells and whistles, there's an ease of use that keeps getting better, but the mission is the same. You're right, yeah, and I'm on all the time, I just think it's, it's such a value added platform, and, you know, it just irks me. And I, you know, I have this mission to make sure that people that buy Vertical IQ actually use Vertical IQ, because it's absolutely amazing. I'll tell you a quick story, and this may help folks out there who have a Vertical IQ. 

So I'm doing a call with a banker in Boston, and we're walking across the street, and I said, the bank's big Vertical IQ user, and I was walking with the young banker, and I said, Did you bring a Vertical IQ? He said, Well, I don't do that anymore. That's a client call. I just use that for prospects. And I said, Okay, we're going to talk about this after the call. This is such a value added solution, and it's for everybody. And we're going to talk about some new audiences that you've added. But you are Steve. In the banking industry. And this fall, you've been out, I see your photos everywhere, and you're talking to bankers, and you're listening to speakers, and you're you've got your ear to the ground. What are you hearing about 2025 and going forward, what's the vibe out there in banking? Susan,

Susan Bell  10:18

yeah, so there. It's funny, because I do a lot of conferences, and it's not only banking conferences. So as you can imagine, we'll talk about the vibe in a second, but AI is huge, right? We're always, we're just learning all about AI and how it's going to be present. There's no getting away from it. It's here. So there's a lot of talk about AI, but in the banking conferences I've been hearing, maybe these are the sessions I choose to go to, but it's talking about how to differentiate yourself and your bank from your competitors. How are you going to win? And one session that we lead at Vertical IQ is not knowing about the industry, but knowing about your local economy. And that's something we do, and we have added, since the days of starting Vertical IQ, we've added a look at, why is it not only important to understand the industry, but how that industry operates within your market, and what that market looks like in general. 

How does the local economy look? You know, it can make a difference if you're engaged with a current customer, as you were saying, Yeah, we're going to talk about this, you need to be talking about all things Vertical, IQ, industry and economy, with your customers, as well as prospects. But why is it important? Well, they might be deciding that they want to expand, go into a new market, and you're guiding them. You're adding value. You're earning the trusted advisor status. And how do you do that? By using tools that help you, tell that story, that educate the partner or your customer, and they think, they sit back and they say, you know, we didn't talk about a line of credit today. We actually talked about my business. That's so important. If you can help them, you become not only a trusted advisor, but my friend, Amy Vetter, who's in the accounting world, uses the term being a cherished advisor. You should be trusted because you are dealing with their money and their business every day. But if you're not cherished, they're going to go to their accountant, they're going to go to their attorney. You want to be that cherished advisor that they call you when things are happening or when they have a question, and that's really where it's at. Yeah,

Jack Hubbard  12:18

That's important. And what and what are you seeing? How are bankers feeling out there as they go to conferences? Yeah,

Susan Bell  12:24

I digress a little bit, but, think it's pretty promising. I mean, there was, it was a tough year, I'll say it. But I think things are looking up. So everybody that I've come in contact with, they have, if they haven't heard of Vertical IQ. Maybe they've been under a rock, I don't know. But they either use our competitor or they use us, but they want to use it better. And so a lot of my conversations are around stepping outside of the regular and being extraordinary. And that's, that's what I have. Those are the kinds of conversations I'm having with bankers. But I think things are, things are good on the horizon coming up.

Jack Hubbard  13:03

Let's go back to that, because one of the things you talked about was the training that you now provide. And people come up to you and they say, Well, how can I use Vertical IQ better? Talk about signing up for Vertical IQ. Talk about the orientation, and then talk about the ongoing training that you provide so that people actually get active with Vertical IQ and use it in the way that you want them to. Yeah,

Susan Bell  13:30

Absolutely. I think this is a really big differentiator for us, because like I say, don't turn on the system and walk away and say, good luck. No, we have an onboarding call that focuses on the top things that will be important to the person who bought Vertical IQ. What does success mean to you and your team? We understand that. So therefore, we have a goal that's communicated to the trainer, Nicole, so that she can create training that's very custom. It's important that we hit one, two and three with using Vertical IQ, whether that is winning new business, retaining the business you have, growing the business that you have, expanding your reach. With treasury management as an example. You know, these are the types of things that we understand, and therefore we have the goal to help you get to that goal. And then there's 2.0 and 3.0 training. We have the initial training, and then it's alright, let's break it down. What do you know? What questions do you have? And how can we therefore fine tune your approach after having access for maybe 90 days, and then we do it again after another 90 days. So it's very much a partnership, if you will, to try to get to that, what means success to you? Why did you buy this tool?

Jack Hubbard  14:47

Yeah, because you know and you do reporting. And so the CEO or the regional manager looks at the report and says, My people aren't using this. And the. The first knee jerk reaction is, let's get rid of it. Well, the challenge is that what I found with Vertical IQ, and I'm sure this is true for you too, the high performers are using this tool. They embrace it. They need it because they're using it in the right way. To take that away just because somebody doesn't, everybody isn't using it is ridiculous, and that's why your training has become, I think, so important, you'd

Susan Bell  15:26

make a great point there. The training is very important. But there's also something that we educate the buyers with. It's called the rule of thirds, and it's with any tool that you put in front of your folks. Think about your CRM, a third of the people use it really well and exactly how you want them to use it. A third of them will use it Okay, or sometimes when they need it, and a third are just never going to adopt it. And that's, I mean, it might change a little bit. It's not strictly third, a third, a third, but it's pretty close. And so it's our job to get that middle third to act more like the top third and those bottom third to move them up towards the middle third. 

So that's I mean, we really do look at it that way. And there's something else at play here too, what does success mean? I said that in my first answer when we started talking about training, but your reason for success, or your idea of success as Jack the buyer might be different than Susan the buyer. They might have to hit this every week at least seven times when the next person might say, "I want to see them in it." At least every month they might spend one day planning for the whole next week. It doesn't have to be on a daily basis. 

So it just depends on if we can understand that sometimes they don't know what success means yet. So that's a good 90 day check in call. Okay, this is how often they're using it. Is it moving the needle? Do you want to see them using it more? How can we create good habits? And it might be time to do your research. It might be, well, I asked somebody else to pull this for me, my assistant, or whatever, so it's actually not going to be on my login information. It's on somebody else's. It's understanding all of that, because you're right. It's too easy to go, I don't see enough usage, and therefore we're not going to renew this. You have to look at the whole picture, yeah. And we have to understand

Jack Hubbard  17:10

it, yeah. And when you talk about success, you know industry intelligence is is really important for banking, but you've made some really good decisions about other industries that can look at Vertical IQ and say, Oh, this could be part of my success as well accounting insurance technology, talk about the strategy to move into those fields. And what do you see in out there, in accounting, insurance technology, etc, compared to banks and how they're using Vertical IQ. Yeah,

Susan Bell  17:47

That's a great question. Accounting is its own little world as insurance kind of is accounting uses it just as a real brief overview. You know, there are different groups and practice areas in accounting that have specific use cases for industry intelligence, for example, business valuation, litigation, support. They have to look at an industry because they're looking at a specific business. Maybe it's a dissolution of a business, and they have to see what the value of it is as of a certain period of time. And you got to look at archive profiles and what the trends are of all these different things. And they know intuitively how to use Vertical IQ, because they have a specific use case. Audit needs to use it because they have to understand the industry in which they're performing an audit. 

It may be outside of something that they have specialization in, and then you've got a lot of accounting firms now that are PE backed, and they have big growth objectives so that that's a use where they've got business development teams and marketing teams that are really becoming more sales oriented than they were in the past. You have accounting firms that have very specific industry strategies. They've got groups that just deal in food and beverage, for example, but they are experts in food and beverage, and people go and look for those firms, because they have that expertise, and we perform the backbone for that as well. So they have a really specific use case, but they are getting more into business development and marketing than I had seen ever before. I don't mean getting into but that's a focus for them insurance, they have producers out there that are trying to get an edge over the competition. 

So if they know a little bit more about the business, about the industry, they can open up conversations and gain trust quickly when they're having those kinds of conversations. And there's also like, hey, what if, what's happening in this industry where a specific insurance, type of insurance, would be helpful for me to have a conversation about what types of insurance, what, what types of plans would they need? So that's important insurance. And then there's technology and Small Business Advisors. That's a big, big area for us now, because. You've got all kinds of people trying to create businesses, start businesses, and we have a national account with America's small business development centers. Most of them are attached to some university, and they coach and counsel people on not only starting the business, but creating a business plan, going to a funder, going to get your bank loan, SBA, etc. So they use Vertical IQ, because they're extremely agnostic to industry. Anyone can walk in their door, and they need to be able to provide that kind of value to them. So lots going on there. But consulting firms, marketing firms, a lot of those, and they can find us on the web and purchase a small, what we call our business pro license, especially for small businesses, right there online.

Jack Hubbard  20:52

Wow. And one of the things that impressed me as I was reviewing this and getting ready for this was the Women's Development Centers, the women's groups. Those women are such great networkers, and they are so sensitive to providing value to people. What? What do you see in the women's groups that you're working with? Yeah,

Susan Bell  21:17

So we just went to Kansas City this year. The Association for women's business centers had a conference, and it was one of the best conferences. It was like a good conference. And it's not just because it was all women, but just this, the stories, the people overcoming things in their lives, to open a business, start a business, and the support that they got from the Women's Business Centers and the SBA. I'll tell you, it's also happening with veterans. There's centers called V box for veterans, and there's a program that's called Boots to Business revenue readiness that get folks read that's, it's, it's a boot camp to get them ready to start a business after they leave the military, and that gets them ready to become business owners and think that way. 

And, you know, go get a loan and these types of things. So it's a wonderful thing to be part of, and we help them get introduced to banks and where they can help with funding. So it's super important. We also have a partnership, I should say, with a live plan. If you don't know live plan, they help people do business plans. And our content is included. Some of it is included in the live plan so that you can just type in some of it's not just but there's, it's a lot to it. But type in some information about your business that you're starting, some of the financials, etc. It will benchmark against peers in the industry and help you build a business plan. So if you don't know the live plan, there are other companies that do that as well. Growth Wheel is one of them, but we fit hand in glove there to help people start businesses. Wow.

Jack Hubbard  22:55

So you've really expanded, and the other thing that you've expanded is your offerings. And so I was at I teach, as you know, a lot of banking schools now, in Michigan in the spring, and I had a couple of screen captures of what you're doing for local economies. And I said, so here's Grand Rapids. Let's say that you're calling on a dentist, and you want to know how many other dentists are in Grand Rapids, Michigan. There's, there's that. And I want you to talk about that very specifically. And then the other one is, Grand Rapids is in whatever county in Michigan. And here's what's going on with the county. You've already talked a little bit about that, but I want to go back to it, because it's, I think it's one of the best things that you've done in your history to really, because bankers would say to me, Well, this is great, but I What does that mean to me in Seattle? Well, now we know what it means to you in Seattle because of the work you've done. Yeah,

Susan Bell  24:00

yeah. And thank you for bringing this up, because we chose not to do state profiles. We did that in our first research days, because we found that you were talking about Seattle. Seattle is going to be really different from Spokane, if you're in California. Think about it. You know, Modesto and San Diego are very different. So saying this is what's happening in California or in Washington, is fine. It's better than just, I guess, nationally, but we thought it's better to get much more granular. So you can look at 3400 areas in the United States. It's all of the counties and parishes and the metropolitan statistical areas. 

So your MSAs, and a lot of times, folks will say, Well, you don't have my city? Well, we have the county pretty much anywhere you are. You're going to get some information. If it's not an MSA, per se, it may not be your city, but it'll be in the county area. But it's important to know, right? If it's a dental practice, how many dentists are there per 100,000 people in this local area, and what's the average nationally? And if this dentist. To expand. Where should they go? Well, the next county over is actually there are fewer dentists, and that's a growing County. We know because we're looking at population numbers as well. It's really helpful to get and it's common sense, but it's really good for you as a banker or you as a trusted advisor, to sit down with that business owner and say, I have some information that might be helpful in this conversation. And boy, your stock goes way up. 

When you can do that, you can look at wages, you can look at a real GDP. You can look at a lot of things per MSA or per county within the industry. You can create favorites. It's really we've done a lot of cool bells and whistles, so it's a really good user experience. The UX is really great, but you're right. Then you can go look at the county and do the same thing. You can look at the top SBA lenders with our partnership with Lumos and the top industries that are getting SBA loans in that local area. So you get a really nice picture of not just what's happening in the industry, what's the financial world doing in the SBA world, and what does it look like if I were to look at this particular industry within a specific area in the United States? So it just brings it up, not a notch, but 10 notches, really. Yeah.

Jack Hubbard  26:19

And if I'm a banker, one of the questions I'm going to ask is, do you mind if I send this information to your CPA? Also, because now I maximize my value to the CPA, because the CPA says, well, it's not just my dentist, but I've got a pharmacy here that's wanting to expand. I've got a plastics company who's thinking about moving to another area. I bet this bank can really provide me with information. And I've had bankers say to me, Well, I want to be careful about lender liability. I don't want to run this company. Well, nobody said you are. You're just providing information that perhaps nobody else might, and that's really important. But I want to come back to your comment about Lumos, you started a relationship with them in 2024 and talk about that company and how you fit that into Vertical? IQ, yeah,

Susan Bell  27:09

absolutely. That's it's a well, and I don't know if you know this part, you probably do, but it's a company here in Wilmington, North Carolina, so they're right in my backyard. Our company's out of Raleigh, but I happen to live in Wilmington, at the coast. They are here. They are former, most of them are former Live Oak Bank employees, and have a lot of the SBA background from that they have a relationship with Live Oak now, it's, it's, it's, it's a good thing, but yeah, we decided to partner with them. We use some of their data. They use some of ours. We have embedded this SBA data into looking at industries with that lens. What are the charge offs? What do you know? How do these perform in that sense, but also, what are the top industries? What are the top lenders in each of these, in each of these areas. And so, yeah, they're fantastic. But the part, I didn't know if you knew about, but I'm sure you do now, Lee Demby, one of our former first research partners, is now the chief, I guess, Chief Revenue Officer at Lumos, so he's now working with them, small, small world. But it's a great

Jack Hubbard  28:18

indeed. And Lee is an absolutely amazing guy. So Cody Sanchez, yes, Marian, thinking. So that's new. What's that? Yeah,

Susan Bell  28:30

Have you ever heard of Cody?

Jack Hubbard  28:31

I had never heard of Cody, but, but I went out and looked at a couple of videos, and she's a dynamo.

Susan Bell  28:38

Is she? Is she? If you don't know who she is, her name's spelled C, O, D, I, E, Sanchez, she has this company contrarian thinking. She helps people buy businesses, start businesses. The idea is that you can grow wealth for your family in a way that you might not have thought of doing. So it's, you know, through borrowing, through financing from the owner, and lots of different ways. She was a former Wall Street person who just said, this is not for me. I want to go out and do the, you know, start a business. But she bought her first. Her first purchase was a coin operated laundromat, and she tells the story of how she did it. She put an operator in place and watched it grow. I'm making this very simple. Her story is amazing, but she now teaches people how to do that. She has classes, and our partnership with her is, if you become a premium member of contrarian thinking, you have access to Vertical IQ, because if you don't know anything about a business you're going to buy, you might want to know, what do these financials mean? What do they look like versus, you know, benchmark against their peers. What should I be thinking about? What questions should I ask if there's any funding that's going to happen, what should I know and what things should I be able to speak to? What. The banker, etc. So that's the partnership that we have there. It is so great. She's got tons of followers, and so we're hopeful that this will be a mutually great relationship partnership. And we just got to speak at her conference this last. I guess it was last week that Paul Hawk, on our team, went down to San or Austin and spoke at her conference, which was great, too. Oh, that's fantastic.

Jack Hubbard  30:25

Well, you, you've come a long way, baby, since 2010 you've made a lot of changes, a lot of improvements. But here we are, day before Thanksgiving, coming around to 2025 before too long, anything new that we should see on the horizon in 25 for Vertical IQ,

Susan Bell  30:48

yeah, I won't say too much about this, but we have a partnership. We just won. It's not winning, maybe, but through the NC State MSA program, which is a Masters of Science and Analytics, a partnership with their team, these graduate students, to help us with our data. So we have a lot of third party data, which I think is very important. I know we talk about AI and sourcing from beyond, but we want verified data, and we do have that we license a lot of third party data. They're going to help us with the analytics of that and creating more meaningful outputs with this data. So I'm super excited about that. You can read more on our website about that partnership and what's happening. 

I can't go into details where it's the beginning stages, but we're very excited about that. Just think about the data that comes in and the risk ratings as an example. Or, you know, taking the data one step further, what does this mean to my customer? So not just here's some data, but here's what you do with that data. So we're very excited about that, lots more with considering AI and things. So yeah, there's a lot on the horizon. We'd spent a lot of time, energy and money last year with all this local data. And so that will be, there'll be some 2.0 with that as well that you'll see. And yeah, we're excited for the new year. I'm excited to continue to talk with bankers, financial institutions, credit unions, we didn't talk about that today. There's a lot of movement, as you know, with business lending within credit unions and CUSOs, and we have partnerships and relationships there as well, and that is growing so looking

Jack Hubbard  32:35

1. Well, I have to believe that your credit union situation is going to increase. One of the things I'm seeing, and you're probably seeing it too, is that bankers are going over to credit unions to help them start and get ratcheted up on commercial lending, because there is an expertise there in the credit union movement. So that's powerful, and CUSOs are even more powerful because it's a group of credit unions that are kind of helping each other out that's really, really exciting. Well, you've, you've been a great partner of ours over the years. Susan, how do people get a hold of you? Well,

Susan Bell  33:18

me, personally, you can email me, call me anytime. S bell at Vertical iq.com you can hit our website, Vertical iq.com there are plenty of success stories, blog posts. There's even pricing and etc, testimonials that you can see right there on our on our post, find me on LinkedIn. Connect with me if you aren't already happy to meet you there. And if you're a banker, I'll probably see you at one of, I don't know, 50 conferences, or not that many, but I always love to see the people that I see this way, get to see them in person and shake their hands. So that's always great. No doubt. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Jack Hubbard  33:58

Well, Susan, it's great to partner with you, and we value and appreciate your sponsorship of our program. And you know, this is a week of what I like to call the attitude of gratitude, but I'm thankful for you and Bobby and David and the other folks that work with you every single day. So thanks. Thanks for being on today. Thanks for listening to this episode of Jack grants with modern bankers, with my great guest, Susan Bell. Next week, I will talk to an author who has published one of the most unique sales books of 2024. It's Christy K Jones, author of selling your way in need of some practical ideas and resources around blending LinkedIn into the sales process. Well, you've got them at the modern banker.com Subscribe to this podcast. It's been downloaded 50,000 plus times. Follow us on YouTube as well and join our free public library right at themodernbanker.com/publiclibrary. The library has. Replays of all my shows, all the jack grants with Brynne, more than 40 e books and a lot more. It's December. What better time to make today and every day, a great client day.