Episode 57: Joanne Black

Jack Hubbard  00:19

I've had the privilege of being in and around banking for more than 50 years. Lots of changes during that time. We've gone from Ledger's to laptops, typewriters to technology. One thing, however, remains the same. Banking is a people business. And I'll be talking with those people that make banking great here on Jack Rants With Modern bankers. 

Welcome to Jack Rants With Modern Bankers brought to you by RelPro, and Vertical IQ. Each week I feature top voices in financial services from bankers and consultants, to best selling authors and many more. The goal of this program is simple, to provide insights, success practices and to bring new ideas to the table that you can use to maximize your results in 2024. 

The secret to marketing success is no secret at all. Word of mouth is all that matters. That quote is from the great Seth Godin, and it forms the basis of an amazing conversation with my guests this week, Joanne black, Joanne formed her company No More Cold Calling in 1996. Joanne earned a BA from UC Berkeley and joined Omega Corporation, a great company and one very familiar to Baker's in 1985. After eight years at Omega, she joined foreign corporation and traveled the world providing sales, training, and product management. Joanne has authored two best selling books, “No More Cold Calling,” and “Pick Up the Damn Phone.” She's a regular speaker at a podcast guest to want more referrals in 2024 and beyond. Grab a pen and take some notes from this conversation with the queen of referrals. Joanne black, in Jack Rants with Modern Bankers. Here we go. 

I always wish that people could hear what goes on before the recording starts because we just had a wonderful conversation. Joanne I've known for a number of years. And we you know, we have all these tentacles with Brynne Tillman and so many others. And Joanne it's great to see again and so happier on the program.

Joanne Black 2:25 

Talking to you is only stimulating, you know, and it gets my women working in different ways. So I appreciate that Jack, because you're a veteran in this business.

Jack Hubbard 2:37

Well, I appreciate that. And for those of you that are in banking that watch this, and we do have a lot of bankers. Joanne had a seven or eight year stint at omega omega performance, which was one of the great companies around commercial lending training. And Joanne did a lot of consulting there. And then, as I mentioned in the introduction, the forum group and and now her own business for a number of years. Talk about no more cold calls. It's a really interesting name for a company. But give us a little background, a company, Joanne.

Joanne Black 3:11

I never thought about referrals and anything about it. They were never on my radar. And I've had my company now for more than 27 years, right. But I had worked for two different training and consulting firms. When it was 1996, my colleagues were saying Joanne ain't got any training. You can start your business. Why not? It had nothing to do with referrals. I thought what I wanted to do was work with management teams to craft a sales strategy, which was in their business strategy, because back then, you couldn't find anything about sales, and that's how it started, so I was referred to a little more outplacement firm. And as I was working with a management team, they were doing a customer satisfaction survey of 50 of their best clients. It was several rounds. And I added this question in the last round. 

For this day, I have no idea why. Because the question was, would you be willing to be a referral to this client? A seven point scale seven was high. And my question came back 6.5. So the next manager meeting which we won't get at seven of your past clients are saying they'd be glad to refer you, are you asking? For the answer was no. In 1996 And unfortunately, it's no today because clients are a source of new business. But we're not asking. And so I thought about it and I realized my best business comes from referrals. But I needed to do what I call my research. I talk to salespeople and sales execs, they never said you like to get referrals. Oh, yeah, they gave me this big list. And then I asked, Do you have a referral system and methodology? With a strategy with metrics with skill and accountability for myself? The answer was no. 1996. And again, it's no today, as I'm a pretty logical person, and I thought, wait a minute, and proceed with this business. But you don't have the systems. It's just happenstance. So I created the system. It's straightforward. It's simple. It's not easy. Because if it were, every business may have a referral system and that's not happening. So that's how it started, Jack.

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Jack Hubbard 6:16

Amazing. And now here we are 28 years later, your company is thriving. It's doing really well. You wrote an article. I printed it in the top sales magazine, January 2024. The reason I bring this article up is because since we're early in the year, I want to talk about what you're seeing for 2024. And it really is, you know, interesting that this article kind of came up, you wrote for things that you think about 2024, even in tough times. Talk about the article and what you see for 2024.

Joanne Black 06:59

when she read me that piece, but yes, so I see. I'm very optimistic about 2024. I am optimistic about Charles, because more and more people are realizing that they are missing out. And especially today with Florida with all these cold emails, I use some days I get 40 to 50 in my spam, but I've always said someone's making them do it. So it's not their fault. They have goals around it. And that's not how business works. From the time of whenever we had history, business was always built on relationships. 

And actually not that long ago, my uncle was an important pharmaceutical salesman. And it was very different than, but if my mentor, the pharmacists of the small town he lived in, knew each other, they went to high school together, whatever they had to scrape chat. Within the last five minutes, he'd write the order. business with people they know, they like and they trust. And you're certainly not going to get any of them lasting those emails. That's why I really need to be front and center. In any economy. They're great. But in an economy that's uncertain, or all this talk about recession, I hope that's in the past. But you know, who people want to talk to, they'll always want to talk to people who have been referred to by someone they know, like and trust. So why is that important? Well, trust is the hardest thing for salespeople to gain. I understand that we do because there's so much bad behavior out there. 

However, when you are conferred by someone, your prospect trusts, think about what happens, that trust that person has for the person who referred you, first to you. So you arrive at a meeting with trust and credibility already earned. And it's a very different kind of meeting, which I know you've experienced, Jack.

Jack Hubbard

It's phenomenal. And we're going to talk a little bit later about the high percentage of bankers, salespeople that get in the door when they have a referral and people just don't, people just don't get that. But I do want to ask you one other question about the article. It's really interesting. You had four steps that you talked about. One of them is being nimble and innovative and I'll read a quote Because I think it's so valuable. One of my clients put it this way: the future of b2b marketing belongs to teams that think long and act quick. Those two principles sit at the heart of client results. Thinking long and acting quickly about both of those are just fascinating articles.

Joanne Black

Yes. And this client, I had told him, I sent a note and I was quoting macro reporters names that make so much sense. Because we need a strategy, we can think long, about how we're going to go about getting new business, etc. But we can't wait. So we need to act right away. And that's why relationships matter. Because right now, everybody should be reaching out to people, they know why, especially, and talking to them. And asking for referrals. That's not happening. It's not even happening. It was in August or September, November, December. It's not. But that's what it means we need that long. No way. It's just like five minutes, right? 

So anyway, and you don't? Well, now, it's easy, because we are always electronically figuring out where we are. But if you follow me here, if we don't know where we're going, we don't know, I guess they mentioned we're going to get off all around Texas highways. So that's really bringing it out. Homes. That's what we're talking about, we know the steps to take to get to that goal.

You talk about relationships matter. I love that phrase. And in fact, it's the mantra of Reed Hoffman, who started LinkedIn in May of 2003. So now LinkedIn starts its 21st. Year. I'm curious about your opinion here. Before LinkedIn, before social media, it was really a face to face voice to voice kind of a situation. Did LinkedIn, as in some people's mind, change the game? Where are you with LinkedIn and referrals? I believe and have for years that LinkedIn is a place to begin a conversation and our relationship. What I am against is people asking for a referral on length. And, and here's why. On LinkedIn, you could say the people I see are connected, so and so you know, etc, etc. They say yes. And then you schedule a time off. That's what matters. Because when you're talking, then you're going to build trust with that person, you're also going to get all the intel about your prospect. 

So who knows your prospect better than the person you're talking to? You want to find out? When I say Intel, you're going to get information nobody else gets, you're going to find out what's going on. And so we're the people to talk to. What are the initiatives that matter? What should I be saying? I mean, you want exact words? And who is the decision maker? And who else is involved? So all those questions need to be answered. Whether we're talking on our cell phones, or having a Zoom meeting, or meeting in person, that doesn't matter. And that person is glad to give him some names. Because Oh, it makes sense.

Jack Hubbard

So you make a distinction, and it's a really good one. And I think there's a lot of people in sales, I'll call them young newbies. We call them baby bankers, who have been brought up in this social media culture, who have looked at cliques as a way to generate relationships and perhaps referrals. Your distinction is sure to be on LinkedIn, and you are alive and maybe get connected on LinkedIn. But that referral process, that trust that you talked about, really does happen on the phone in person, zoom, whatever the case might be. It's a face to face voice to voice situation, and I love that. Let's go deeper into that though. Let's say I'm a baby banker, at any bank, or I'm a fairly new salesperson, and I want to garner some referrals. I believe that you have to have, it's not just me, it has to be the culture that fosters this. So I'm really big on a term that I think I learned from you called referral culture. What do you mean by that? And how does it develop into something like that?

Joanne Black

No, culture is a big word. And the last consulting firm I worked for did culture work. And it took a long, long time, it cost millions of dollars. So I had to find a definition that worked for me. And I did. Well, here's what happens when people are. Right. Think about it, the way we work. Well, that starts at the top. You know, it's not just words that are spelled out there. It's the culture of a company. When you know the culture of the company, when you start talking to people, you know, are they closed off? Are they sharing? What happens if there's a difference of opinion? All of these things come into play? And that's all Sure. And it doesn't just happen. But that definition is really what made it for me.

Jack Hubbard

One of my favorite articles that you wrote, was this, I want to say in December of 2023, and you talked about you didn't say it exactly this way, but the math of referrals, and you and you help people look at the math of referrals, if we look at banking, statistics would tell you that somewhere up to 80% of current business, new business for this year, will come from those current clients. So what you're really chasing is 20%. How do I get that 20%, in my mind, referrals has got to be at the top of the list where I'm going with this is this, it's easier for me if I'm a veteran banker, and I've got a good client base, a good portfolio to get some additional business cross solve, as I call it from my current clients. But if I'm a young banker, I'm fairly new to the industry, I may be even new to a community. Where do I go? Where do I start, Joanne, in terms of generating and getting a really good referral network?

Joanne Black

You have to start with the first question, what is the bank doing to bring this person up to speed and one of the benefits of banking and how the bank works? And that's where we get into culture, right? Couple years ago, two people actually reached out to me and LinkedIn, and they were two guys. He told me they were 22 years old. And they wanted to know about referrals. And I was curious as to why? Well, because we don't have any clients. And I said, Well, I bet you have a lot of good friends. You know, if they're out of college, relationally or whatever, concert people they know, it could be a neighbor, but everybody knows somebody. That was a song I remember being born in. This is absolutely the case. We don't look at that. 

In fact, it's as an example that goes back here. But I was working with a bank. And they had an office in the financial district of San Francisco, but it was on the fourth or fifth floor, but in the Philippines, so you couldn't just walk in. And the manager says to his team, "Here's our ideal client, here's what we're looking for. And I want to know, who you know, fits that description that we should hate. The receptionist was the first person to bring in the referral. Because his roommates, parents with a perfect client for that thing. 

And so that's another lesson. We don't leave anybody out. We don't know who does what. Who would think of a receptionist, right? Since it's so many people in our lives, and we have no idea who they know, we don't live next door neighbors. We don't know who their brother in law is. We're not sure when they went to school. I mean, it just goes on and on and on and on about that. We all know someone but the big lesson here is we tend to discount young younger people because we think they will.

Jack Hubbard

Yeah, that's a good point. I was doing a class A while ago, and I said to the bankers, all veterans said, Okay, I want to talk to you a little bit about referrals. And I said, I want you to think about your top client. And I want you to tell me to write down, who are their trusted advisors, their CPA, their attorney, their realtor, their who, you know, whoever it might be. And they were all able to do it. And I said, Okay, that's great. This is your top client that you don't want to lose. Now, what about your next client? And what about your next client, and the point is that we don't know as much about our clients, trusted advisors as we should. And we also many times don't nurture the COI as the referral network that we have. So let's talk about the referral sources that we have. In your experience, what have you seen people do to nurture that relationship and continue to build it?

Joanne Black

Very simple things. It's really manners, politeness, it's always acknowledging them by sending a note, handwritten with a real stamp, sending them articles or my caste, they should listen to him telling them why. But the thing is, when CLI is there they have a lot of people coming to them. So how are we going to stand out while we're gonna stand out? So actually, we have an introduction from one of their clients. That's the trust there. So my belief is yes, COI is important that I had a managing partner, a CPA firm say to me, Joanne, we have to give three referrals. So I was, I always put the one I want them to choose first. They know everything. They know this. 

So it's important, and it's important to show it in person. That's today's topic, we need to show up in person. That, to me, is what's essential. It's just basic matters, and building relationships. However, I'm going to go back to what you said because there's two kinds of referral. There's one I call them referrals. So somebody hears about you, and they say, oh, so So I should talk to you. Right? We have no control over those. They happen to know when they're going. What's not happening is what I call out sound, which means we are actively and intentionally asking, we have a process. Again, it's strategy metrics, skills and accountability. That is not there.

Jack Hubbard

Yeah, that's a challenge. And I wish we could get bankers to understand the power of value. Some people want referrals back. They want reciprocity, and that's fair. But if I'm a banker, what I want to do is I want to ask that referral source. Okay, I want to provide value for you to talk about what that is. And for some people, it is reciprocity. For some it could be I know you're a member of that country club, I'd love to play golf, I know your bank has tickets to the sweet in the, for the Cubs, I'd love to go to a game at some point. Others might say, you know, I just want to provide value. One of our sponsors is Vertical IQ. Every month, they provide in their 300 profiles, some articles based on that particular profile. 

So if I'm in the dentistry, if I'm in the timber industry, etc, finding out what the CPA and lawyer does has as a as a vertical discipline might help you say, gee, maybe I can provide this article to the CPA about the timber industry that that he or she might find value on. So there's a lot of ways we can do this. But we got to continue to do it on a regular basis. The other thing I think we need to do on a regular basis is measure. I've seen some banks try to do this in an automated fashion. I think CRM should be used to do this. Some can do it, some can't. But whether you do it on paper on an Excel spreadsheet or use technology we got, we got to be measuring. What are we measuring Joanne? What are some metrics that matter from a referral perspective?

Joanne Black

For better all the time. And one of them is how many people did you ask? This week? The minimum is one. Because your metrics don't matter. Let's do that. Right. So you've asked, how many referrals Did you receive? That means an introduction. That's my definition. And then how many of those meetings Did you conduct? Now that that's one form, you've had that meeting, whether it's in person on Zoom or some other ways, then you can put that prospect in your CRM, and have steps to follow up, or fair not. Now, what I've learned is, even if they're not the person, now's the time to ask that person who they know who matches the person you want to be. And this is where somebody's gonna pull back, they aren't going to do that. But you already have relationships with this person, and they can be the ground, my experience has been over the last 2728 years of people are correct. They want to put good people together. And that's not true. That's the truth. But that's why we have to ask and ask the right way. And getting an introduction. That's how it works. 

Jack Hubbard

Yeah, and you gotta do it at the right time, too. If you are, if your client is not happy with something that happened at the bank, you may take or whatever, not the right time. But I've seen banks do something. And I'd love your comment on this. And maybe you've done something similar, called good neighbor calls, where the banker goes into a client. And early on, they talked about the relationship and the client said, you know, I'm really happy, you guys are doing a really good job. And I put that off to the side and we have our meeting. And at the end, I might say something like, you know, you mentioned that we're doing a really good job for you. That's, that's my job is to make people happy like you. You've been in this industrial park for 29 years, you must know everybody here. I'm curious. Is there somebody specifically that you know, that I might be able to help with your help, maybe an introduction, or a phone call or something along those lines? And it works? It works every time because now you're getting specific with the individual versus saying you got any referrals from me? I'm curious about your reaction to that program.

Joanne Black

Clients are the source of new business. Again, we're not asking. And it's also really specific and that say about why they love you. Right? So start with what was the problem? Why did they start working with you in the first place? Because if they were really happy with their banker, that wouldn't be Moochie. So what was the problem because people relate to a problem. And it's like a night business. The problem is, they don't have enough qualified leads, or pipeline, and revenue, whatever, there's always complaints, and those have been complaints for decades, they're going to be complaints for decades going forward. And people resonate with a problem. 

So if your client can introduce you, and talk about where they were, before they started working with you, or a thing or two about why and how they help. Because some people won't want to open the kimono as the saying goes and tell them the problem they had. There's a way to do. And obviously just in this language, who are one or two people you know I should meet? Because I don't like asking a question that can get no answer. So you know, anyone? Would you introduce me? No, no, no. No, I have this list of W words. But the first one is Gu which nobody can say no. Because that questions, because that's a tip for everybody listening. It will make a huge difference in the way you communicate and interact.

Jack Hubbard

You've got a statistics lie, and liars use statistics. I've seen statistics that say if you have a referral, you are 85% likely to get an appointment using the referrals name. One of the mistakes I think bankers make is they don't say the first time Last name of the referral source for the first two words on the phone call. Joanne black, your CPA suggested I give you a call to bury the headline? That's not the question. The question is, have you developed a referral system that is really effective? It's a three step process, from what I understand, to talk about your referral system and how it works.

Joanne Black

This goes back to what I said about 1996, realizing that this company was not even asking their clients. And that's when I developed this system, and clerks have been refined over the years. But the first is strategy. You must have a strategy stick in the ground. Referrals are going to be our number one. Help found the way of attracting clients means we're getting the introduction. And to your point, because it's instead of saying your Cpa. Referred to me as the Cpa. If the one who makes the introduction. So the person agrees. It just solves everything. 

So strategy one is very simple. I'm a salesperson. I don't want to be complicated. And so how are you going to get there? So again, what's the destination? And then the metrics? How are you going to measure the outcome? What is it you want to say? This program. This process was remarkable. Look what it did for the metrics for the bank. It's metrics for the team, and metrics for the each individual and the metrics for individuals need to be linked

to their performance, their capillary eyes, because otherwise not going to happen. So that's the first piece.

Second is referral selling is a skill that definitely works differently than everybody has done in the past. In fact, I've had seasonal sales. Pros. Say to me, I just don't have to ask right? I'm not comfortable. So learning a way to ask the position what we do in a way that's going to resonate. And as for the intersection is a skill piece, and that doesn't just happen. So we work together for 4 or 5 weeks. and its insert implementation is the third step and I think I mentioned this to you that I will still remember a banker, senior banker. I remember Pittsburgh. That's as much as I remember, but he was a client, and he said to me, Joanne, the challenge is always in the execution.

So that's what really holds this together. The 3 steps. So we'll have the strategy, the skills, and the execution. And they all have to come together

and make it happen. What's happened today, though mainly. people say, Well, go get referrals.

and they wonder why nothing happens.

Jack Hubbard:

Alright. So, my mantra for 2024 is better coaching and banking. We're pathetic at it. We do a lot of deal coaching. And on the commercial side. And that's important. We do a lot of operations coaching. That's critical, too. I'm talking about behavioral sales coaching. So I will go through your program. It sounds like a wonderful program. It makes a ton of sense, strategy, skill, execution. I came back from your training. What does the coach need to be doing? What are those coaches need to be doing to make sure that what you, what I, what you taught me in the training is going to work sustainably out in the field.

Joanne Black:

Well, first of all. I always stay involved so we could each person a couple of times because that behavior needs to be coached and then definitely have to work with management to work with them on how to coach. My experience has been, Jack, and it could be flawed if it doesn't work. The managers have all these good intentions but, my goodness, they're bogged down with everything else they're doing. And the research actually shows that differs in revenue and in pothas. The manager's coaching coach. Well, that's not happening.They asked, for I need to stay involved. I work with the leaders. Whoever wants to post if I'm not there every day.

So I built in those reinforcement pieces, because that's my experience, Jack. Everybody has good intentions. so much going on, and so many balls in the air that she only went for referral selling to become a habit unless that's there and it just ends. I won't let it end, nothing will change.

Jack Hubbard:

Wow! That's great, and I find it just so gratifying to hear a company like yours that does this important training to make sure that you're staying with the client? II think too often what happens is sales. Trainers drop into a city to do their sales training, and they leave their seagulls. You know they fly all over ya poop onion. Then they leave you, you stay, which is really really good. I gotta believe that one of the things you teach in your class is what I call the Monty Python effect. Now, a lot of young people. When I talk about Monty Python in my banking schools, they have no idea who Monty Python is, but Monty Python, the company from England. Their whole mantra is now for something completely different, and where I'm going with this is, I'm on the board of directors of a bank. We have a Cpa, a realtor, a commercial realtor.

and an attorney and a financial planner. They give us great referrals, but they don't give us every referral. Therefore the bank may need to do something a little bit different. Sure. Cpas, attorneys, etc., are really important. But in your experience, what about that Monty Python effect, who are some unique referral sources that you've seen your clients work with?

Joanne Black

I don't think it's unique. I think it's the current clients for missing the vote on that. And that's not happening at the gatherings from your board. I was working with one client. Amazing board. Actually. Well, how do you choose them? And they gave me a lot of reasons. And I said, "Well, are they responsible for one of their requirements?" that they will refer you to their connections by making the proper introduction. 

Joanne Black:

The answer was, No. So it's fine. They can take it upon themselves. But why not have all of the work. You know they should be helping you grow

win powerful introductions.

Jack Hubbard:

I'm convinced that when someone is invited to come to the board of directors. a question should be asked. How do you intend to provide us referrals? If the answer is, I don't. I'm not sure that you should be on the board, that's just me. The other thing is, Banks have a lot of advisory boards, which is terrific. And their job is to call it what it is. It's a business development board, and if they don't have the intention to refer, then don't don't put them on the board. It's yeah. I just think it's. I just think that's simple. That's it's that simple. But let's say I get it on the board and I don't provide referrals. There are a lot of reasons why people, whether it's a board member or a customer, or a client, or whoever, don't provide referrals. What are some reasons you found that people say, I'm just not interested in giving you a referral.

Joanne Black:

Okay, whenever that happens I haven't. My experience has been. People want to put people together. and that's it. It's some. Maybe they don't know how. I haven't had anybody refuse ever or my clients had never had anybody refused. Perhaps I'm just making this up. I don't know. but perhaps they don't understand what you're looking for. Who do you want to meet and see if there's someone in their network, and if they haven't ever been in the sales situation

they may not get it. I don't know if they even get it, they say, No, I won't give you a referral.

Well, I don't know if you can find them or not, but again, it has not been my experience.

Jack Hubbard:

Well, you said you made it up, but you have experience in this, and you know that that whole idea of you didn't tell me. The kind of client you want is really true. In fact, I've done some research on this, and the number one reason that people will not provide referrals is they don't know what you're looking for, because they don't wanna look foolish. And with their client

Let's say that I'm a Cpa. And you're my banker, and sure I'd like to provide your referrals. And I refer you to a restaurant, a gas station, something that the bank doesn't want we're in. We're in bad shape here because I'm the Cpa. I referred you over to somebody that you don't want to do business with. I look really bad, and in the eyes of the restaurant gas station, whatever the case might be, so I think you're right on. I think the number. One reason is, they have no idea. You gotta educate your referral sources as well. It's not just. And I'm sure you go into this in your training. It's not just, hey? I'd like some referrals, but be targeted with that as we've talked about before a couple more questions. You've been very gracious with your time and a couple more questions. You've been very gracious with your time. I'm very big on something that I call closing the referral loop and that simply means you give me a referral. I will talk to you. But the big problem is many times I don't get back to you and suggest what I talked about in general terms, perhaps because I got to be real careful. What are you seeing in that lack of closing the referral loop? Because the truth is, if I close the loop with you, the likelihood is, you're gonna want to give me more referrals. It feels good for you. What are you seeing out there with that?

Joanne Black:
Can't talk to what other people are doing, but what I've seen. I have an example from the past that I had referred to someone and to my clients, and when I talk to my clients, she said. Oh, I'm working with so and so. and I never heard from the person I introduced. So how ready am I going to be to refer to her again. No, never it's, you know, it's about courtesy, and it's about matters. and that's what everybody respects. So how long does it take? Take to write a hand here and thank you, though I mean, that's not negotiable in my book. And yet it may be old fashioned. How many of those do we get? I mean, of course, you can send an email first, you can have a phone call and thank people. How many hands are written? Thank you. Notes. Do we have today? So on the bank? No cards, I don't care how bad your handwriting is. Just be simple, as thank you, for you're gonna hand, address the envelope and put a real step on it.

That's it, and watch and see what happens. This magic was not really. It's for matters. It's thanking people. It's like someone gives you a gift and says, you never hear from that person that's just rude and there's some people I know, I mean, look at. We just finished with a lot of gift giving in December and I heard from somebody that they won't let their kids play with their Christmas gifts, play with them unless they sit down and write a thank you note first.

Jack Hubbard:

What a great idea!

Joanne Black:

And it doesn't matter. Could be one line. Thank you so much for the gifts. And so, my daughter. So passed this onto our grandchildren. Do they like to write things? Not perfect, and all the wine has to be reminded. So they come to us at different times. But you know you can just tell from the handwriting to a little bit. You can tell from the message and one of them, my grandson, actually wrote more than one sentence. So it doesn't matter. You're acknowledging, thank you. And that's just human.

Jack Hubbard:
Well, a couple of things, I mean, obviously, you're you. You raised your daughters while your kids well, and they're modeling the way they're coaching and that's that's it's it's as simple as that. That's really important. The second thing is, II last year, early last year 

I watched Larry Levine's program selling from the heart Podcast and he had a woman named Elizabeth Cothrel. who wrote a book. and she's the chairman, a chairwoman of the board of a Bank in Virginia, and she wrote a book called Heart Spoken, and it talks about the discipline of writing notes, and it changed my life. I write a note a day to somebody. And it could be a thank you. Note. It could be a sorry note. It could be, you know, whatever it is.

I will write it and not an email, right? Because to your point, people don't get many letters anymore. We don't get many things in the mail anymore. I'll tell you one other thing that's kind of cool. this whole ref closes the referral loop I work with a pretty large organization. One of the things I left as a handout, and it's not fancy , it's a loop, and I got a referral. I talked to the referral and I closed the loop, and it's kinda in there on their wall somewhere, because it reminds them. And to your point. It is a discipline that's really important. It's rude not to do it. But we get busy. And so if it can be a visual reminder. Yeah, I gotta write that note. That's really, really important you've been so kind with your time. And this is our second time doing this. And it's so fun to talk with you about your final thoughts if you can. I got 2 questions once my final thoughts. One is some other folks that you read here on a podcast whatever that you might recommend. But final thoughts. First on referrals in 2024.

Joanne Black:

It's very. It's simple. It's not easy. That's what I say because of more eases everybody. But they asked me for install your referral acumen. So whatever you're doing now with referrals seems to be more whether it's being super super super specific about who you want to meet. Dear Jack, that's huge, because people want to make good introductions, because the reputation's on the line and that's critical. It's a system. Fine with me means that I am known as a lead banker, which is taken the ground and say, this is going to be the way we attract new clients, and we needed his support around it with everything we've talked about That's to me. That's it. Almost 28 years, and I'm still so excited. People do business with people. Period and so 2024 will be a great year and I'm saying, you don't have to struggle to get new business.

Jack Hubbard:

That’s great! I know you’re just so giving with your time. Anybody that you’re following, that we should know about, authors, podcast things like that. 

Joanne Black:

So I have full disclosure. I don't listen to podcasts. I’ll listen to yours. I read the transcript, because here's the thing we all take in information differently: I can read a transcript, and it's done well way faster than I can sit there for a half hour. Listen to a podcast. And I'm one of these people who, prime outside taking a walk exercising.I do not take my phone with me. I just want to enjoy the outdoors. And I'm afraid, if I listen to a podcast and all that on my trip and fall. Okay, that's beside the point. So I am a guest for many. So Larry is one and different topics. and he sends an email out. And the first person who answers wants to get on And if the topic interests you so it is fabulous and I know there's lots of others. I'm just a little blank now. But that's it. I mean, we people learn in different ways right and so having a podcast that has no transcription for me. I just don't know. I know a lot of people listen to it. and that's it. That's their preference.

Jack Hubbard:

Well, people do learn different ways, and one of the ways I learn about referrals is following you. You've got a great blog to talk to people about your newsletter, your blog, how to get a hold of you, Joanne.

Joann Black:

Or if you want to connect on Linkedin. That's fabulous, however. make it personal.

I get all these standard invitations, and I don't accept them. Why should I connect with you so I'd love to connect with you and tell me you heard me on the with Jack okay, we're then gonna start a conversation. click the bell for my maintain profile, and then you'll get notice of all my posts.

You can go to no morepolepand.com. It's my website. You can email me. [email protected] So those are all ways to get in touch with me. I am always on email and good chunk of the time. Someone will always get back to you. That would be great.

Jack Hubbard:

Well, Joanne, you've been so kind with your time, and this is such a critical topic, and I know nobody in the industry. That's better than you talking about it. So Joanne Black, thanks so much for your time today, and all the best for a great 2024.

Joanne Black
Oh, you, too, Jack! And for everybody listening. It's gonna be a wonderful year.

Outro:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Jack Rants with Modern Bankers with Joanne Black. This and every program is brought to you by our friends at RelPro and Vertical IQ. Join us next time for more special guests bringing you marketing sales and leadership insights, as well as lots of ideas that will provide your bank or credit union that competitive edge you need to succeed. 

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