Season 2, Episode 14: Kristie K. Jones

Jack Hubbard:  Banking What a great industry. It's been at the heart of our economy since day one, fueling growth and helping America thrive. The bank of North America was our first bank, established by Robert Morris way back in 1781. Over the years, banks have dotted our landscape. In money centers and small towns where community banks have been a great partner. They've helped businesses grow, become a vital part of the communities they serve, and make families feel secure. We've sure come a long way from those old school ledgers and now we offer cutting edge technology solutions. 

Regardless of all these advancements, banking remains a people business. I've been in and around our industry for over 52 years, racking up over 5 million air miles and spreading the gospel of performance culture, development and trust based sales conversations. I've had the unique privilege to train and coach over 80,000 bankers, speak at state and national banking conferences in 49 states, and teach at 13 of the nation's preeminent banking schools. Along the way, I've made countless friends. Now, as a cancer survivor, it's time for me to give back. One way I'm paying it forward is through this program, Jack Rants with Modern Bankers.

Welcome to Jack Rants with Modern Bankers. I'm Jack Hubbard, Chief Experience Officer of the Modern Banker and Chairman Emeritus at St. Meyer and Hubbard. Every week I feature special guests to improve your commercial and business banking sales efforts, your marketing approach, your overall performance culture, and of course, your bottom line. It's all brought to you by our great friends at RelPro and Vertical IQ. My guest today is Kristie K. Jones. Kristie's new book, Selling Your Way IN is one of my top three books to read in 2024. I was introduced to Kristie through Meredith Elliott Powell on her Sales Logics podcast, every Saturday morning with Mark Hunter. When Meredith suggests you read a book, you know it's going to be a classic. And it's absolutely true with Selling Your Way In. It is one of the most unique professional and personal development books I've ever experienced. 

Now, a little bit about Kristie. She's the founder and principal of the Sales Acceleration Group consulting firm that provides sales expertise, strategies and a unique process that drives revenue through a top 10 percenter mindset for small businesses and startups. Kristie is a journalism graduate of the University of Kansas. Throughout her professional life, Kristie has worked in the SAS environment and has done some fractional work as well. She's an E Learning instructor for U to Me, a contributing writer for Top Sales magazine, and a mentor for thousands of Small business professionals. It's the creator of Kristieisms, which you're going to hear about in the program. And bestselling author Kristie K. Jones on Jack Rants with Modern Bakers. Here we go.

So I just finished the most unique book of 2024, selling your way in by Kristie Jones. It is destined to be a classic and a bestseller. And, oh, look, there's the author, Kristie K. Jones. Welcome, Kristie. Glad to have you.

Kristie Jones: So much for having me.

Jack Hubbard: Well, the book is just outstanding and it is so unique. And I'm going to talk to you about an idea that I always give to bankers around the holidays. Since we're on during the holidays, we'll do. We'll get into that a little bit later. But you have it like everybody. You have an interesting life story. You have mom and dad, who are both entrepreneurs, your brother, and you are raised in this family, and you talk about getting a kitchen table MBA. Let's start there. Take us to the way back machine for Kristie Jones.

Kristie Jones: Sure. My parents did us, like, a big, big favor, my brother and me. Scott. they did not talk down to us. They did not talk about things that were adult topics when we weren't in the room. My dad was the owner broker of a Coldwell Banker franchise, and my mother quit teaching after 13 years of English and Spanish to be an individual contributor, to be a real estate agent. And so despite the fact that they worked in the same office together, they never saw each other during the day. And so the debrief actually happened at the kitchen table sometimes as my mother was flying in to get dinner, you know, have a bite to eat or whatever. 

And then, you know, I say real estate is one of those industries where you're working when everyone else isn't. So it's a nice night and weekend business. So a lot of times she was just dropping in, grabbing a bite to eat and heading back out. And that was really when debrief happened. And so, we got educated, you know, literally at the kitchen table by osmosis. It was totally organic. We just were paying attention. and so no surprise that years later, my brother had chosen to go into being an individual contributor. 

And I had taken my dad's path as a sales leader. but I often talk to my parents when I'm on podcasts or doing other things and say, like, don't hide money. Don't hide those financial conversations. Like, we have financial acumen. We're financially literate. You know, we are both independently Financially stable. My parents never had to loan us money. you know, and so I said, don't hide those conversations from people. I know that talking about money is taboo, but I've even abolished that. Like, I think we'd all be making more money if we all talked about money.

Jack Hubbard: I think it's generational. I, you know, my mom, would never talk about money. And even when they died, we had really no idea what was going on. And I am completely against that. We've told our kids everything they know everything. They know the passwords, they know everything. That is absolutely critical.

So, one of the things I loved early on in the book is your stories about waitressing. You know, when we go out to dinner, it's always fascinating to me how there are certain weight people that just get it and then they get it, they get more tips. Talk about your experience as a waitress.

Kristie Jones: Yeah, it's funny because as I interview people and people who've read the book or know my story, they're like, I waited tables too. There is a large percentage of the sales population that grew up working hospitality, you know, in restaurants and the like. And so it was perfect for me. Like I, you know, as an, as a hardcore extrovert and someone who's sometimes not always filtered, I just thought it was fun. And I was making twice as much money as my friends who are working at the mall. And so, you know, I was working these sometimes split shifts. 

So I, you know, go in at 10 and I'm done at 1:30. And then I show back up at 4:30 and I'm out by 8. Like, you know, I was like, I just thought it was perfect for me. It gave me a lot of flexibility in schedule. And like I said, I still say today it's my favorite sales job because I got instant feedback on my performance. And that's one of the things that sales professionals complain about all the time is not getting regular, consistent feedback from their leader. And as a waitress, I didn't need it from my leader. That would have been nice, but I didn't need it because I got it from my customers. 

Right. Sure, you had the occasional cheapskate who like, you know, threw a dollar on the table type thing. But in general, like, you know, as I spent more and more time at ah, you know, I was kind of loyal. So I'm a creature of habit. So once I found a couple of. I actually, actually was working two restaurants through, through high school and college. And once I got into the hang of that. One of them was like a sandwich ice cream parlor. So that was great for days, but not great for nights because they didn't serve alcohol. And so switching over to a nighttime gig where there was alcohol involved, which, you know, increased my check size, but, you know, I got regulars, right? People who came in and asked to sit in my section. And then, you know, that became more fun. Like, that was definitely, you know, that's just like getting a referral or somebody reaching out and saying, hey, like, you know, I want to introduce you to somebody like that. You know, that made it. That made it so much more fun. But there's so many parallels between waiting tables and sales. Like, you know, we were assigned a section no different than a territory. We had to have product knowledge. You know, people have food allergies. 

You know, what was special? How was it prepared? Were there nuts? Were there nuts in the salad? Like, all of those types of things. I said, there's. There's so many parallels, you know, and relationships with your coworkers mattered because the managers set the section tables, right? They decided what section you got. And. And, Jack, I'm so old that we allow people to smoke in restaurants back in the day, believe it or not. And so, you know, like, you didn't want that. Like, you know, like, literally, if I was in the smoking section, I would literally strip down in the garage when I got home and go straight to the shower. So gross. but, like, you know, nobody wanted that section. So, like, that was either a punishment or you were the, you know, last to arrive, or you swapped us, you know, you swapped a shift with somebody. but so many. So many amazing lessons that I learned. And that was truly my first sales job.

Jack Hubbard: Interesting. We went to this place and, we asked for the waiter and. And when we first came in, he said, now, I know you probably aren't thinking about dessert, but let me tell you, we've made something today. And so he's teeing us up all the way through, which is absolutely great. I. Some people call it upselling. I like to call it cross solving, because my sugar.

So you, you, you. Your story continues. And you've worked for a number of companies, but then you started the sales acceleration group. Talk about your company and how you help your clients.

Kristie Jones: Yeah, I had, I had been in corporate America for the first several years out of college at a major retailer and just kind of got disenchanted. There were, like, there were some unethical things going on. You know, I was a buyer, like a low man on the totem pole. Sometimes I would go into meetings with a Tommy Hilfiger group, but my president was there because I wasn't, you know, I wasn't a big enough girl to handle some of those negotiations. And I just got disenchanted. I'd grown up in a small family owned company and this was the anti that, right. And so when I decided to leave, I made the decision that I wasn't really looking for a job, but I was looking for a company. 

Like I wanted a certain feel. And I ended up working for a company with about 10 or 12 employees at the time in SAS, but again so old that we called it the subscription model. it was, there was no acronym for that back in the day. Reported directly to the owner, CEO, and knew nothing about B2B sales. Like I had just been in retail and hospitality my whole life. And So I spent 10 years there like really cutting my teeth figuring it out. And the next job after that and I had full revenue responsibilities. So that was really like that, you know, really at that point. But it was really, but it was a lifestyle business. 

So I took it to $10 million from 1 million. But then it was like, like the owner was spending six months a year in Florida. You know, he was living the life, living the dream. And so the next job I took was a VC backed company. And that's when I got the VC backed bug. and that's when SAS was starting to get in full swing and SDRs and BDRs were coming into fashion and I just sort of grew up in that whole environment and, and I just loved every minute of it. So when I decided in 2016 to walk away from a SaaS company that turned out to be the first unicorn in its space, a billion dollar valuation. I wanted to stay in that space though. I wanted to stay. I wanted startups to be my swim lane. 

So today I specialize in helping new founders. Sometimes they've gotten VC backed, money, sometimes a series A fund has come their way, which is nice, but I say I do zero to 5 million. Like that's my swim lane. That's my specialty. I will help. You know, a lot of my founders were, are founder led selling or were founder led selling before I got there and are ready to go back to, you know, their day job if you will, as CEO and founder instead of sales rep. And so helping them formalize and document all the processes, you know, get it all down. We can't hire anybody until we put something on paper. So I've got to get it out of their head and onto paper. and then I've got to get it into the CRM system. And then the second thing that I spend a lot of time helping people do is hiring those first 1, 2 and 3 sales professionals for their organization and then customer success if we're lucky. Wow.

Jack Hubbard: And I gotta believe given the number of new companies that are starting, you must be swamped with business.

Kristie Jones: Yeah. As a solopreneur with some 1099s, I am busy. I have great relationships with a few VCs in the Midwest. And so like at this point and almost exclusively from the beginning, I had really entrenched myself in the startup community in St. Louis before leaving the VC backed startup that I was at. And so I was getting, you know, I was getting referrals from VCs almost immediately. And now 100% most of my business comes from either founder to founder referrals or VC referrals or someone occasionally sees me on a podcast and reaches out and says, I think you might be able to help. 

So I, again, lead a very blessed life. But you know, I say to people, and you've read the book. So you know, like I've been doing the right thing all along. Right. Like, you know, I left retail when it didn't match my value system. You know, I spent 10 years helping, you know, someone else grow their company and it was part of their retirement plan, but it became part of my retirement plan too. I knew, you know, I probably stayed two years too long, but I knew what I, when I left, what I needed to do. I needed to change that next step. You know, I went from a $10 million company to running a 28 million dollar department, in a VC, you know, in a VC, my first VC backed company. So you know, I made a lot of right decisions. I've treated people the way they deserve to be treated. And so I just say that the universe is paying me back on a daily basis and I'm grateful.

Jack Hubbard: It's wonderful. And you talk about inspiration. This is really a phenomenal book. Selling your way in the playbook for setting your income and owning your life. It's so unique. What was your inspiration for writing? I believe your first book?

Kristie Jones: It is my first book, yes. It actually wasn't what I started to set out to write. So during Pandemic I had been reached out by Udemy, the learning platform, and they asked me, they were starting a sales catalog. They have a B2C division and a B2B division. And they were building out their sales catalog and asked me to write a prospecting course for them. And so during Pandemic I did that and I thought, well, I've put all this time and energy in and they gave me an instructional designer. And so it was really well done. And I thought, I'm just going to turn that into a book. And so I hired a book coach. And about three months in I'm like, I need a break. And I have a journalism major, so I love writing. 

So that was a little concerning for me. but I realized that I was writing a how to dumb, dumb book. And there were plenty of good authors out there and good sales, you know, consultants out there who were doing the how to and probably better than I was going to be able to do it. And so I decided to pivot. And one of the things I wanted to do was make it more personal. And you know, as someone who walks into early stage startups a lot of times and sometimes they have sales professionals on staff and but, but they've been mishired or they've been put in the wrong seat on the bus. You know, and I had read good to great back in the day. And so I believe in not only being on the bus, like the right people on the bus, but then making sure they're in the right seat on the bus. 

And I think the SaaS world does a disservice to those early, you know, sales professionals, whether they're coming out of high school or college, because we force everybody into the SDR role and that's a hunter role and there's so many other roles. And so over the years at that point, I've been, you know, doing this for 20 years in the, you know, in the SaaS world. And I walked in so many times walking in and I'm like, you're in the wrong seat on the bus. Like, you need to be an implementation specialist, you need to be in customer success, you need to be, you know, an expansion specialist, you need to be a hunter. But people don't know how many different sales roles there are. 

And so I wanted to give, I wanted first and foremost people to understand their sales superpower and secret weapons and then match those with the right role, the right company selling the right product into the right industry with the right leader. And we, I, you know, I still think it's so funny today there's so much reactivity. Like, we spend all of this time, Jack, like, honing our ICP and making sure we understand our Personas and putting our outbound sequences together and proactively going out to target people that we know should have our product or should be a customer. And then we take a sales job because a recruiter calls us and says, boy, do I got a gig for you. And I'm like, why? Like, why aren't we treating our own career the way we treat outbound prospecting? 

It's so weird to me, but it is happening. And so I wanted to just shine a light on that and say, hey, like, you need to take control of, like, you know, my. One of my Christian that you saw in the Christian deck you have is, you know there are jobs with a set income and jobs where you set your own income, and you can't truly set your own income if you're in the wrong role. You know, you look at the stats from SaaS, and you know what some ridiculous low number, like, let's just call it 57% of people are hitting quota. Well, how many of those are actually just in the wrong seat on the bus? And if we put them in the right seat on the bus, they might actually get to 85% of quota.

Jack Hubbard: So you mentioned Kristieisms.

Kristie Jones: Yeah.

Jack Hubbard: So I. I get the book from Kristie, and I get this deck of cards, and I go, what the heck is this? These are. Here's one. Fit is when your prospect has a problem that your product can solve and they are willing to pay. So it's. It's a little saying. How do I get these? These are so cool.

Kristie Jones: Yes, I'm, You can get them. You can reach out to me, and I will ship you a pack of those. And I'm getting ready to put them on my website for sale. So, yes, I've got. I have plenty in the basement of the house. So don't worry if you. If you want one, I got one.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah. You know, one of the things I really liked about your book, and I'm curious what you're seeing is this whole idea of being proactive around your career decisions. You talked about that a little bit. But. But what are you seeing out there? How are people doing with their proactivity around their careers?

Kristie Jones: Not great. I mean, that really is what separates the top 10% from the other 90. they're really not taking responsibility for their professional and personal development. They're not doing the little things like, I think people think I always Use the example. Like, you know, I'm sitting next to Susan and Susan saying all these things, and she's a top 10 percenter. And so I start saying what Susan's saying, but it's not working for me, right? And I don't understand why. I'm like, but I'm doing what Susan's doing. And what you don't know is what Susan's doing outside of work, right? 

How many business and sales books she's reading, how many podcasts she's listening to, you know, what her circle looks like, that she's at the gym every morning at 6, you know, that she, you know, limits her alcohol, that she doesn't put garbage in her body. You know, like, those are things that people like the top 10 percent of every profession, you know, there. I mean, like, if you look at the top 10 percent of any profession, like, they're not obese, right? They're again, with, with entertainment potentially being the one exception to some of that. But in general, like, they're taking care of themselves now. Sure, they have the money to hire people for that, if you will. but the bottom line is, like, you, welcome to YouTube. Like, if you don't know how to do something at the gym, welcome to YouTube.

So, you know, I get frustrated when, you know, I ask an interview question with every candidate as I'm helping people hire, that is, you know, tell me about formal professional soft skills sales training that you've been provided. And I get this long pause and then they go, I haven't. And I'm like, no, shame. Lots of people haven't. Shame on sales leaders, right? But lots of people have not had, They've had product training, you know, they've had other types, but they've not had soft skills training. And I said, okay, well then, so what have you done for yourself? And that separate, I mean, and right then if you don't come up with a good answer, we're done. Right? Because you're not a lifelong learner professional, and you're not taking responsibility for your career. And I'm looking for those types of players.

Jack Hubbard: Well, when you say looking for, so are the companies that you consult with. You are a, contributor to Top Sales magazine. And by the way, if you, if anybody out there has not read Top Sales magazine, it's, you know, it's Kristie, it's, it's Dave Kerlin. And we could go on and on, Frank.

Kristie Jones: Lots of great, great contributors and amazing stuff.

Jack Hubbard: In the most recent edition, you talked about one way interviewing so sure, I want to be in the top 10 percent, I want to be in the top 10%. If I'm interviewing, I want to find a top 10 percent. And you kind of talk about this whole idea of a one way interview. What's missing in the interview process,

Kristie Jones: Helping the candidate determine if they're a good fit for us, right? So I mean at some point I got to flip the script. Now selfishly, right? I start out by making sure that you know, they've got the skill set, they're qualified, you know, they've sold in the mid market, you know, they've sold $35,000 deals. Like selfishly, I'm going to start by taking care of my client first, right? But then I tell them, I'm like, I'm going to flip the script and I'm going to help you get educated. As I tell the candidate, if we're going to spend four or five hours together, let's just say that's all we're going to spend together. You're going to know before I will whether or not this is a good idea or not because you've been living with yourself for 37 years and I've spent five hours with you. 

And so I say to them like, you can't be successful if this is not a fit for you, right? Like it doesn't matter how great we are, it doesn't matter how great our product is, it doesn't matter how great our sales process is. But if it's not a fit for you, then you will either self sabotage or you will just combust and implode and you'll be done. And so I think too many again, particularly in this economy where when I drop a job posting for a client and I get 350 resumes in 36 hours, it definitely feels like a buyer market and we can take advantage of people, but we, but that doesn't benefit anyone, right? 

It absolutely does not benefit the companies and my clients to take advantage of someone by not providing a two way interview process where you know, at some point I let them privately talk to someone who might be a co-worker or the marketing department. Like I don't want to, you know, for the most part I'm in every interview with my clients. But at some point I say to them like I'm gonna, I'm gonna hook you up with so and so I'm gonna give you 30 minutes. You guys are going to coordinate that on your own. I'm not even going to know how this communication is going to happen, and you're free to ask them anything you want. And then I tell the other party, hey, I already vetted them for skill. Like, they can do the job. You got to help them determine whether or not they want to do the job here.

Jack Hubbard: Wow. are you seeing a lot of companies? I mean, m. Certainly the companies you're working with are doing that.

Kristie Jones: Yep.

Jack Hubbard: About the rest of the industry, it sounds like there's a lot missing here.

Kristie Jones: Yeah, it's funny. I'm on Reddit and I'm a new Reddit user, and I'm just basically stalking, in fairness. Because what's really being talked about about interviewing, recruiting, hiring, sales, you're not finding on LinkedIn, you're finding on anonymous Reddit where people are like, I'm not even, like, like the amount of complaining, going on about recruiters ghosting people. Like, it's one thing, like, if you reach out to a recruiter and say, hey, like, what happened? Like, you know, either what happened or am I still in the running or whatever, like, to not respond to that is just unprofessional. 

Right. It's, it's disrespectful in my opinion. sure, they're busy. Like I said, there's a lot of candidates for every job. but there's a lot of discontent out there. I mean, people feel like they're being treated like cattle and not. And probably not. You know, I'm also on a careers, subreddit. And it's not just sales people that feel that way. I'm mostly spending my time in the SaaS, in SaaS and sales type subreddits. But it's not that. And they're frustrated. I mean, I, you know, I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago. not because I had a job for him, but he was a friend of a friend. And he said, you know, will you talk to my friend? And I said, sure. And he's like, I've been out of work for four months. And I'm like, wow. And, you know, he's again, not fresh off the sales turnip truck, as I would say. Like, he has, you know, good experience, his resume looked good. you know, I, I pointed him in some directions, but, you know, they're like, I think it's a very frustrating market right now for those who are, you know. And again, a lot of these people have been laid off. Right? I mean, we're still sort of dealing with that. but, but I also would say to people, like, I often comment on these posts and say, hey, I know you got laid off from Salesforce, and that's a big core. You know, now you're like a publicly owned company and whatever. But I'm like, I'm hiring all the time. 

60% of my business in 2024 is coming from helping clients hire. That's the highest percentage it's ever been. It started out as a third. A third, a third. Like 30% doing playbooks, 30% doing hiring, and 30% doing interim sales leadership. And now it's shifted where I'm barely doing any. I'm, 10% doing sales, you know, leadership interimly. And then Playbooks are about, you know, 25, 20. But the 60% has just taken over. But I'm, But you have to be, you know, be wired for startups. Right. A lot of people are like, oh, my m. Gosh, no way, no how. But how about having a seat in the. At the table and a voice at the table? How about helping shape that company and bringing in your expertise and your experience to a founder who is a coder. Right. Who's a developer who doesn't know anything about sales and marketing. Like, you can come in and be a hero.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah. One of the things in your books that you talked about very briefly is fractionalism. You may have done some fractional work, and you're certainly seeing more and more of that as we go along. What are you seeing around business development professionals who are doing fractional sales work for various companies? Is that. Is that a thing?

Kristie Jones: It is a thing.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah.

Kristie Jones: I know, I know a handful. Not, I don't know, like 200, but I know a handful of people, everything from retired sales reps. Right. Who'd retired. And then the spouse was like, yeah, you gotta find something to do, friend, because you're making me crazy. And they're not working 40 hours a week. Right. They're working 20 hours a week or 15 hours a week. They're picking and choosing their gigs. I have a. Yeah, I have another guy who's a 1099 for me who does some work like that for other people. And, he was a former SDR leader, so he's perfect. So, yeah, I think people who are starting to go, you know, to, to. And I hire 1099 all the time, by the way, to help me go through those resumes and do phone screens for me, for my clients. So I'm hiring, you know, temporarily out of work sales leaders, or recruiters who've hired for sales. Like I pick those people up all the time. 

So there's a lot of gig economy work to be had. and honestly I find them on the Rev Genius channel. There's a contract work, hashtag sub slack, ah channel within the Rev Genius community. These guys are all these, you know, men and women are all qualified. And I, and I say, you know, I just post, I'm like, hey, I've got a three week gig because that's how long it takes for you to go through the 350 we got and you know, have 25 phone screens and then you're done. I pick up the ball and run with it after that. So yeah, and there's a lot of like, I'm in an organization called Women's Sales Experts and there's a woman in there, Karen Cope and she has a company called she's. They call them door openers. Like she has a whole life. And a lot of these are like stay home moms, right? And I had another woman, a woman in the group that also was doing sort of the same thing. I call them like again like the 9-3ers, right? 

So put the kids on the bus or take them to school, then you're going to work from nine to three, you pick them back up, you're done. And so there are, there are a lot of, you know, in those type of situations where you want to be stay home but you'd like a little income and a little something to do during the day. Like, you know, they're hard to find. In fairness. Like I've had clients say I want a part time stay home mom. And they're hard because you don't know where to look for them, right? They're not on LinkedIn, they're not actively looking for a job on, you know. Indeed. So they're a little harder to find. But they're out there, boy, and they're.

Jack Hubbard: So powerful because you know, as a, and you know this, you're a solopreneur. you do everything. You speak, you write, you sell, you book, you invoice.

Kristie Jones: Yep, everything.

Jack Hubbard: Door openers are great. I, I just think door openers are a fantastic thing.I wanna, I wanna go back to the book a little bit because one of the things, you know, I, I love Mike Weinberg and his writing and one of the things that captured me about this and I've, I haven't thought of it this way before, but I've always been very open. Some banker calls me and says, I just, I just got laid off. You got some time? Of course. I always have time. And Mike Weinberg kind of says, and I'll paraphrase it, I always got 30 minutes for you. I think that's powerful.

Kristie Jones: Yeah. Mike was generous with his time and I've been generous. Like I said before, I also agree I've got 30 minutes for everyone. At some point I might be busy enough to only have 15, but right now I still have 30. and so, like, that's my give back, right. You know, I could, you know, go to the soup kitchen or deliver meals on wheels or I could do other things from a charity standpoint, but that's my giving back to my community. And I also mentor for a couple of accelerators, where, you know, they got $500,000 in money but not $5 million in funding, so they can't afford me. But I come in as the sales expert and, you know, and help those, and help those at an early, early stage, who in some cases haven't even quit their day job. Right. 

so, yeah, I mean, like, the universe will take care of you. Everything will be just fine. But there's no reason not to. You know, I actually feel it's a responsibility. Like, I know I grew up in a different household. I know that lots of people didn't talk about money with their kids. I know lots of people. You know, my dad would, I use this example, I think it's in the book. But, you know, every. Like my dad and I just opened a passbook account right when we were small children, and then the bank was down the street from us. And so every Saturday we get on our bikes and he would make us go down to the bank and either fill out the withdrawal slip or the deposit slip. 

And it could be a dollar, it could be 50 cents, it could be 25 cents. But he wanted us to understand how banking worked, right? And then talk to us about, you know, interest. And, you know, they thought it was so cute, but I was like, people didn't do that, right? I mean, you know, he. And again, like, he grew up in a very middle class family in Kansas City. You know, his dad was a, you know, worked for the man at the, at, you know, the United Telephone Company, or Ma Bell, as we call it. and so like, you know, they didn't, like, they didn't have a ton of money, but for some reason, my dad just knew that we needed to be educated and started us at a super young age. I remember getting my first job out of College. And he said, how soon can you enroll in 401k? And I'm like, huh? Like, what's that? And what are you talking about? You know? And so I went and looked it up and they were like, you know, it was like six months in. And he goes, the very second that you

Kristie Jones: can, you take it out? Because from that point forward, you'll never miss it. It'll just be gone.

Jack Hubbard: And. And when we tell young people that, they go, yeah, but I need the money. But, yeah, but soon, someday you're going to be 74 and you're going to look back and you go, wow, am I glad I did what I did. Yeah, I want to go back to the Christianisms, because in the book, there are several pages where you not only articulate what it is, but you define it. I'd like to go over a couple of them with you. Process before prospects.

Kristie Jones: Yeah, I think a lot of people just come into a company, whether that be, you know, they're new or some new product within the company or whatever, and they just like, decided, like, you know, I'm just going to go for it, right? It makes sense. We've made it so easy with automation, right? Sequences, cadences. Write an email, write two, write three if you want, right? Leave a voicemail. Don't leave a voicemail. Who cares? And I'm like, but what's your personal process? And again, every company, again, during your interview process, you should ask about the sales process, because if they don't have one, that's going to make your life a lot harder. But assuming they have some sort of format and process, which is why I start by building out the playbook first before we ever go hire anybody. Because you need that structure. 

Everybody needs structure. But you have to understand how you're going to play to your superpowers within that, right? So, you know, everybody's going to do discovery. Is that your superpower? Well, you may have to spend two more hours than the average person doing discovery. If that's where your superpower lies. You want to inject all of your superpower at the stage that makes sense for you. You know, maybe it's negotiation. Well, what if you go work for a company where there is no negotiation? The sticker price is the sticker price, and there is no negotiation. Well, if that's your superpower, you're in the wrong seat. And so not only understanding the process, but understanding how you're going to personalize the company's process to work to your advantage before you ever pick up the phone and reach out to anybody outstanding.

Jack Hubbard: Hunters aren't helpers.

Kristie Jones: This is one of Mike's favorites. I got a lot of flack for this a while back because I did a post on this and it blew up and people were not. Not everybody was happy with me. And here's what I meant by that. And, I would. I need to do another post to clarify. But what I mean by that is because people are like, that's all I do is help my prospects and customers be better. Whatever. I'm like, not what I meant. What I mean is a lot of the best hunters are not going to mentor your new People and are not going to want to run a sales meeting on how they negotiate. You know, they're a negotiating superpower. Like, they're selfish. Right. Charity starts with me, is their attitude. And that's. 

And honestly, like, to some extent, I think that's fine. Like, sales is not a team sport. It's an individual sport right within it. So it's a sales leader's job to help bring the team, you know, make sure that every individual contributor contributes in a way that brings the team goal to fruition. But they're not helpers. So, you know, I, I come into companies and this is how I know right away that we've hired the wrong person. Like, you know, I'm like, so tell me about a day in your life. I say to the sales professional, and they're like, oh, I'm doing this and I'm doing this. And, you know, if somebody needs a script written, I'll do that. And, you know, I'm on the committee. And then, oh, but the Christmas party last year, oh, my gosh, you should have seen what we did for that. I'm like, farmer, farmer or something else. Right? Not a hunter. Like, they're not going to give up their time like that. They're going to spend every waking moment at work trying to hit quota and doing whatever it takes.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah. And, Mark Hunter is, I'm sure you know Mark, but I do Mark the same way. you know, if you're a hunter, go hunt. If you're a farmer, fine. Then, then, then do that. And you point that out really well in the book with the different, as you mentioned, the different layers of selling. Discovery is not an event, it's a process. This one is so powerful for me because I tell bankers, they'll go out and make a discovery call, and then they want a quick. Make a presentation, a solution present. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Get deeper with it. Understand the problem better in five different ways. Bring some partners out, if you want to, if you want to speed up your sales, slow down your process. Discovery is not an event, it's a process.

Kristie Jones: Yeah, I mean, every single stage in the sales cycle, if you will, should have discovery as part of it. So, you know, I get, when I walk into companies and I see that literally, like stage one is called discovery, I immediately change that. So I changed it to fit. Right. And then stage two is normally in my world demo, and I'm like, nope, product fit Identified. So we decided that they have a problem that we can solve, and they're willing to pay to do so in a certain period of time. But now we have to decide if our product is the right way for them to solve it. Right. Which means we can't just, you know, speak for 98% of the time and not ask any questions. So, you know, I create discovery call templates for my clients and I say, like, I kind of, like, gave them color codes. I'm like, hey, this is green. This is probably a first call. This is housekeeping. Tactical questions, like, you know, how many customers and where are they located and how many locations do you have and stuff that you can get off the Internet, so to speak, like, kind of housekeeping stuff.

00:35:00

Kristie Jones: But I said, you haven't earned the right. You are probably able to uncover pain, but you're not probably have earned the right to ask about the financial business impact of that pain on the first call. Right. And there's probably more pain than you uncovered in the first call. And so I tell people, I go, if you don't understand, like, if you don't grab your calculator and walk yourself or your prospect through the business financial impact that the pain is having on them, how do you know that you're not asking for more money than the problem is? And I go, time and time again I see this and I'm like, but that's a, that's a second or third call question, right? When you've built some relationship and trust, build some rapport and understand their business better. And then you can say, well, it sounds like X and X equals this many dollars and you're losing this many units of that or whatever. And so that looks like it's $176,000 in lost revenue. And I'm asking you to spend 45. That's ROI.

Jack Hubbard: We did an experiment a little while ago, a number of years ago with a, with a bank that was very open to this. And we said, okay, we want you to, have your bankers ask these questions on the first call. And they did. And some of the more intimate questions that you would ask. And they got one answer. And we said, okay, now you're going to go back, keep going back and get some more calls. Ask the questions again on call number three. They got so different answers because they.

Kristie Jones: Trust and trust them, right?

Jack Hubbard: Trust last Christianism. If you don't choose your client, they will choose you. That's the last question for this lightning round.

Kristie Jones: Okay, good. That's inbound, right? Like, you know, everybody's like, we want inbound. Maybe not. Because a lot of times inbound is not icp, right? It's, looky, lose. It's people who are too small or too big for you. and so if you don't go outbound and choose your icp, your perfect prospect, then you are going to be destined to take what comes in the door. And as a hunter, I get it, you're going to wipe your hands with them, you're going to sell them and go. But they're going to churn, and that's bad for business. And so as a sales leader, if your sales professionals are bringing in non ICP clients and selling somebody who should not be sold, you're. It's going to come back and bite you. It's just a matter of time. And, you know, that's just, that's just bad business. And I understand that, I understand that we're paying them on, you know, closing the first gig, but that doesn't benefit the company at all. And it requires. 

This is what's lacking in most companies, Jack discipline. You know, I just, I'm working with a company right now, and they had, they have childcare software for child care centers. And everyone was their prospect until I arrived. And I said, everyone can't be your prospect because your company, your product wasn't built for single center locations and 40 center locations. There's no way that those people have the same problems and need the same things. So which target group does your product really fit? And they finally got it down to 4 to 10 centers. And so I said to them, like, you know, they're getting ready to go trade show season, right? So they were getting ready to go to all these conferences, and they're like, a lot of people are going to come to the booth and they're going to be a single center. And I'm like. And you're going to say, it's nice to meet you. I, would recommend that you talk to so and so.

Jack Hubbard: Exactly.

Kristie Jones: And it's really hard to do because I know how hard it is because when I first got into consulting I was like, I can teach anybody sales, you know, I'm a sales trainer, I can teach anybody. But when I made the decision to just really work with zero to $5 million companies, then I'm the only name that people think about. If they fit that, you know, if they're at the $1 million mark and they're ready to hire their first two sales professionals, it's my name that comes up, not somebody else's. And I no longer call myself a sales trainer. You know, consider myself a coach for sure and a consultant. But, but in general, like that's my specialty, swim lane. And it was terrifying, by the way, to put that on LinkedIn, right? To basically go public with like, eh, if you're six and a half million, maybe you're not for me, right? And having the discipline around that to say, not me, you want something else. And I, again, I have a huge network now, so I can push them to the right, you know, to the right people. But I know how scary it is. But people who are trying to be everything to everybody are going to be nothing to anybody.

Jack Hubbard: I think that's a problem in banking where we, you know, everybody needs loans or deposits. No, they don't. And even if they do, a dollar isn't a dollar. Time is not fungible. And if you're spending too much time with this person who is a nice person but isn't going to provide a payback and you really can't help them, then what, what are you doing? You mentioned you're not a sales trainer, but one of the things you also talked about was these playbooks. And one of the things I loved about your book is there is a

00:40:00

companion workbook along with this. So you get the book and you get the companion workbook. Why did you decide to do that?

Kristie Jones: because I thought people needed to be thoughtful about the book. This isn't just like a plain read and then you're never going to do it again. Like if you're really going to take your career seriously, you need to be jotting things down. So you know, I think the playbook, something like 27 pages, it's ridiculously long, but a lot of it is just blank space right where I'm asking you hard questions out of each chapter that you want. Like in order for you to help figure out what your swim lane should be, what your sales Superpower and secret weapons are. And then helping you figure out, well, how does that match with certain companies that you might be, you know, either considering or where you're, where you're at now, like, are you in the wrong place? 

Like, did you just discover that the reason why you're at 67% of quota is you're in the wrong place? And so I think, like, it's not, you know, you can read it a couple of times. I've had a lot of people say, like, I'm reading it again. I'm like, did you get the workbook? Because it's fine, to go through it the first time without it, but if you're going to go through it a second time, which you should, then you should have the workbook as well. And these are, again, these are very personal questions. These aren't. They're hard questions. If you've not been quiet with yourself, as I call it, you need to get quiet with yourself because, you know, a lot of people aren't willing to be honest with themselves. 

And if you're not going to be honest with yourself about your strengths, your weaknesses, where you might play best, even if it's not the current company you're at, and you have to change companies and change or change industries. I'm getting ready to get on a call, later today with a college buddy who has been working in Insurance for 31 years and wants to make a change. I can't wait to talk to him because I'm like, what are you doing? And I'm like, okay, be brave. I'm like, okay, let's talk about how you can get out of that industry and into something else. 

You know, probably you're not. Probably not. He's not gonna. Probably turn around and get into SaaS, but he's gonna, you know, he's been doing B2C. Like, there's just some things that he. That is. That has played to his superpower. But, you know, 31 years later, he's now disenchanted with the industry and what he's doing. And he's, you know, he's my age, we're in our 50s, and he's like, I still have. I still need to work, and I don't want to do this anymore. So, like, it's okay to figure out that this. I mean, I'm, again, can't wait to hear his story. But. But perhaps. Perhaps he's just at the wrong company now, right? Perhaps when he started at that company 31 years ago, it was different. My guess is it was very different. And now all of a sudden, he's awakened one day and said, I don't like the company. Like, they're not, you know, this isn't my company anymore. This isn't the company I joined 31 years ago. And why would it be? Right? And so, yeah, so I think like you, but you gotta get quiet with yourself. It'll be interesting to see. You know, the. One of the first questions I'm gonna ask is, how'd you get here? Right. After 31 years of being comfortable and making a lot of money, like, how did you get to the place where you are no longer content?

Jack Hubbard: Interesting. Last. Last question. about the book. You, you mentioned me. My good friend and business partner, Bryn Tillman.

Kristie Jones: Yes.

Jack Hubbard: And you talk about LinkedIn. and also on that page and a couple of pages subsequent, there is something about AI. I'm curious to connect the top 10 percentages and AI. What are you seeing them do differently than the 90 percenters?

Kristie Jones: Yeah, I mean, lack of fear and getting educated. Right. I mean, AI has been around. I mean, I've been a ChatGPT user for, however, whenever they came out, right. And now I'm a paid user. and I just started to play with, Google Notebook and some other things. But they're using them first and foremost. They probably have been using them for a while as efficiency tools, right? They're being able to do more in less time because they, you know, they've got notetakers, fathom whatever you're using as note takers. You're, you know, I'm, I'm actually taking podcasts. 

I'm actually taking podcasts that I'm on, feeding them into AI and having them create, like, ebooks out of them. And I'm not spending, like, it's taking me a while to train my AI, in fairness. But it's getting better and better and easier and easier. And in fact, I just came out of a conference with the women's sales pros, with Bren, who gave us some fabulous prompts. Right? And so, you know, like, we're using. They. The top 10 percenters are using them for research, right? They're doing, you know, instantaneous research, right. It's just popping up on them. They're probably, I mean, if they're smart, they're using it to, to build some social posts right? Out of, like, maybe they're. 

Maybe they've got a blog out there, or maybe they've put down their thoughts and then just Said, hey, like, make me three LinkedIn posts or make me a Instagram post. I think efficiency tools for sure. You know, I'm not, as you probably gathered, but I'm not about them writing anything for you. Like, as I, as I had AI write this, an ebook for me that came off of, actually another financial, ah, podcast with Alice Hyman. And I walked through step by step, how to like my hiring process. And she afterwards was like, you've got to put this into AI and create a guide. And I'm like, oh. And so I have. Now I'm going through it and editing it, and it's no like, but. But it's getting so much closer to my voice than ever before. But it's just still saying things the way I

00:45:00

Kristie Jones: would say it. But it gave me a framework, first and foremost. It just gave me an outline, right? It's like, here's the outline and then like, here's what I think I want to say in each of the, you know, in each of the categories. So, you know, we, like, not like pretending AI isn't there. And I do think that it's going to be taking over some amount of prospecting. I think the world will be more tolerant of using it for marketing purposes. I think, you know, that it's pretty easy to look at an email and know whether or not someone wrote it themselves or not, right? And so, like, AI is not that great yet, right? And if you're not, and if you're not in it every single day, by the way, like, I try to use it every single day, so it's learning all the time. if you're not in it every single day, then you're like, you're going to be behind the eight ball, right? When you, if, when you decide you have no choice but to get on the bandwagon, you're. You're going to be starting at zero. 

And so, so many, so many uses for it. And you know, and just like, it's all about the prompts, though. Like, I didn't really realize that till like eight months and nine months ago where my prompts sucked. They were awful. And, you know, and Bren taught me, like, to give it the instruction and then say, and then please ask me any questions you have one at a time. And I did that with this last, with this last ebook that it's writing for me or guide that is writing for me. And it had like 12 questions. Like, it was really curious. And every time it did that, it learned more and I was able. I'm like, oh, good point. It was like, hey, like, do you want to write just an individual contributor? One, or do you want to write one for sales leaders, too? And I was like, oh, like, it never occurred to me, right? Because I was like, I had laid out the process for a sales leader to hire an individual contributor, but it said no after I listened to that podcast, because I literally just gave it the MP3 file and said, listen to this and let me know when you're done. You know, and it came back and was like, done, now what? You know, And I'm like, okay, now. And it was like, well, do you want one guide or two? And I was like, oh, I mean, I would not have thought of that. So, like, if you're not using it, you're. You're not. You're probably missing things.

Jack Hubbard: No doubt. you gotta buy this book. And, you know, I get guests on the show every once in a while, authors who say, you know, I want to give something back to your viewers, listeners, YouTube people. You've got two gifts you'd like to give. Talk about those two.

Kristie Jones: I do. I have two guides that I wrote a while ago. One of them is for sales leaders. So you know, how to identify rockstar traits. and then the other one is the top 10 rockstar traits of top 10 percenters. So if you're the individual contributor, like, what are the other 10, what are the others. You know, what are the 10 percenters doing that perhaps you're not? I'm going to lay out 10 of those. And if you're looking to hire a rock star or a top 10 percenter, I'm going to lay out those traits, too.

Jack Hubbard: Outstanding. And how do they get them?

Kristie Jones: on my, on my website. so, Kristie kjones.comfront/, I believe we put in there. Jack knows, right?

Jack Hubbard: Yes.

Kristie Jones: Jack Rants. Jack Rants. Thank you. Yeah, Jack rants. So, Kristie kjones.com jackrance they'll both be there for download. so please go get those. Like, we spent a lot of time on those because those are the two things that I spend a lot of time talking to people about, is how to identify top 10 percenters and then how to be a top 10 percenter.

Jack Hubbard: We appreciate this. So it's the holiday season, and one of the things I always talk about every year is called Santa Banker. And here's how this works. It's Christmas Eve. Bankers like to go into the office and we share food and we celebrate. What I suggest is that bankers go to their top three prospects before they go to the office with some good business books. They don't need to. It's not a sales call, it's just. Hey, I wanted to give you this because I know you're an avid reader. It's a phenomenal book. This is on my list for this year. Selling Bankers. Kristie K. Jones is focused on entrepreneurs, but be a bankerpreneur and buy this book because it's phenomenal. Kristie, thank you so much for your time today and all the best going forward.

Kristie Jones: Thank you. Thanks for having me on and thanks for reading the book and being a very great podcast host.

Jack Hubbard: Thanks for listening to this episode of Jack Grants with Modern Bankers with my great guest, Kristie K. Jones.

Jack Hubbard: Quit selling your way in, on. Santa's list to bring you this year. It's amazing. Need some practical ideas and resources around blending LinkedIn into the sales process. Well, you can find them, @themodernbanker.com subscribe to this podcast. It's been downloaded more than 50,000 times. Follow us on YouTube as well and join that free public library down. That library has replays of all my shows, all the Jack Rants with Brynne, more than 50 ebooks, and many more. It's December, so what better time to make today and every day a great client day?