Episode 67: Kay Miller

Intro: I've had the privilege of being in and around banking for more than 50 years. Lots of changes during that time. We've gone from Ledger's to laptops, typewriters to technology. One thing, however, remains the same. Banking is a people business. And I'll be talking with those people that make banking great here on Jack Rants With Modern bankers. 

Welcome to Jack Rants With Modern Bankers brought to you by RelPro, and Vertical IQ. Each week I feature top voices in financial services from bankers and consultants, to best selling authors and many more. The goal of this program is simple, to provide insights, success practices and to bring new ideas to the table that you can use to maximize your results in 2024. 

Find your Moose? Muffler, Mama? What an interesting way to introduce my guest this week, Kay Miller. Kay is interesting. She's more than that. She runs a great company, Adventure LLC. She's a best selling author of a brand new book, Uncopyable Sales Secrets, and she's the host of a marvelous podcast, Uncopyable Women in Sales. In short, Kay is a dynamo. I saw Kay on Larry Levine's selling from the heart podcast, and I knew I had to get her on this program as a guest as well. Thank you, Larry. Really appreciate it. You are going to love this wide ranging interview. It's Kay Miller on Jack Rants with Modern Bankers. Here we go.

So, as I mentioned in the introduction, my good friend Larry Levine recommended me to Kay, and I'm really glad he did. I read her amazing book, Uncopyable Sales Secrets.

Kay Miller: Happen to have one right here, too.

Jack Hubbard: It's a twin. And, it was a fantastic read. It really opened my eyes, being an old curmudgeon, 74 years old, to new things. And one of the things I'm really excited about because I have a wonderful daughter who's involved in sales and human resources, is that it's so exciting to see professional women do so well, and improve their status. And that's something that Kay Miller did. but it wasn't easy, and we're going to talk a little bit about that today. Kay, great to have you.

Kay Miller: Thank you so much, Jack. I'm delighted to be here.

Jack Hubbard: Well, great. Well, let's start with Adventure, LLC. Talk to me a little bit about what you do, some of your clients, how you help them.

Kay Miller: That company has morphed through the years. We've been around for 30 some years, and my husband really started it while I was still in outside sales. But since then, we've worked together through the years. Anyway, things have changed around here and there, but we have mainly consulted with clients. Our favorite clients to work with are smaller businesses where we can have an impact, where there's not a ton of red tape and infrastructure we have to go through. and then also, I wrote the sales book, and I know you put in the pre questions. You want to know why?

So sales really is my background. I was either selling hardware and automotive products, totally male dominated fields, as an outside salesperson. And then I've been basically selling my husband through the years, as he did his consulting. I was his pimp. I hope that's okay to say on the show. and then he has written many books, actually, and his publisher was interested. In fact, I mentioned Jeffrey Gitomer. We have the same publisher. Sound wisdom asked if I would apply the Uncopyable principles that Steve really developed in his first book, apply those to sales, and would I be interested in writing a book? Which, of course, I'm like, yes, absolutely. Of course, I didn't really quite know what was involved in that, and I love to write, but still, writing is hard because it's a discipline, like everything, and, ah, it's just hard to sometimes organize your thoughts. 

Okay, great. I was a great salesperson. I became the number one salesperson in a totally male dominated field. Mufflers, automotive mufflers, and catalytic converters. I know how to do it. I'm a great salesperson. But then to put what you do into a formula, so to speak, that I can write a book about, it was difficult and daunting, but I'm so glad I did it. So there's your answer.

Jack Hubbard: Well, let's talk about your book a little bit. And I want to go back to the future with you on Walker Manufacturing and your early days of sales. But stay with the book for a second. I'm always curious. I've interviewed some really great authors like yourself, and everybody has a little different approach to writing. You mentioned discipline. How long did it take you to write the book, and what were the steps to get you to the final product?

Kay Miller: The timing actually extended beyond what was planned, because my dad unfortunately got very sick, and he ended up passing away, and I was his main caretaker, so that was a huge distraction. And I have to just give a huge shout out to Sound Publishing because they were very flexible during that time. But I'd say it probably took six to nine months to write this book. To really clarify this, I had to do a lot of writing to even flesh out what my main points were going to be. Some of them were really obvious, and if anyone's watching, you can see the huge moose behind me. That's something we've talked about for years, so I knew that was going to be part of it. Our branding is the word Uncopyable. Our color is orange, I'm wearing orange. I have a little example of something that we send out behind us. So, yeah, it took probably six to nine months to write that book. 

I'm really happy with how it turned out, and I really appreciate you reading it first. That's something I do with my guests, also, is read their books, but, not everyone does that. So thank you so much, and I appreciate the shout out. I wanted a book that really simplified sales. I think a lot of the sales books I've read, I feel like they're a little bit complicated thinking about, are you one up, are you one down? Or whatever the systems are. And to me, and I know that you agree, this is a relationship business, it's a people business. And yes, we need a framework for that, but, we also need it to be simple and undaunting.

And again, you've sent some questions beforehand, and I don't want to answer all your questions before you ask, but, for a young woman getting into sales, for example, I want her to know, male and female, to know that it really isn't complicated. In fact, we all have tons of experience in sales because we've bought millions of things, so we know what it's like to be on the other side of the equation. And that, to me, is a huge advantage to look at your own experience.

Jack Hubbard: I remember in 1986, I did my very first sales training class for a bank in Cleveland. It was National City bank, purchased by, I think, PnC now. And, great, organization. And of course, I was very nervous. A woman asked me for a couple of hours, you build some trust. And a woman asked me a question. She said, what advice would you give to a female that was just starting out in sales? And I said, foolishly, because I was young and it was my first class, well, I don't see this being any different than a male in sales. And what a stupid answer. And she readily let me know that it was. We got to talk about it. And when my daughter moved to New York, and, she said, dad, tell me one thing I should know about sales, and she's very good at it. And I said, sit with your back to the door in case you need to get out quickly. Your safety is the most important. 

Now, you would never say that to a man, but you have to to women, because we still live in that particular society. And that gets me to your early career. I love the story. You've got to tell the story in your book about your first sales call and what you went through. But you rose through the ranks of a couple of companies, Walker Manufacturing, which is a muffler company. You became, territory manager, I think. Territory manager of the year. You were awarded.

Kay Miller: Yes, I was salesperson, territory manager of the year against most all men.

Jack Hubbard: Yeah. And muffler mama is something we're going to talk about. But go back to your first sales call because it's in the book. It's a great story, and I think it's a good story for women to hear about. So talk about your first sales call.

Kay Miller: I am happy to do that, and it is burned into my brain. It's interesting, looking back at my experiences, some of them as, researching the book, I thought, oh, yeah, I forgot about this or that or this. I'll never forget about that first sales call. So that was with a company called Amarok, and we were selling cabinet hardware, which is drawer, knobs, poles, drawer slides, things like that. And so one of my jobs as a junior, I can't remember my title, entry level person, is to go out and prospect new accounts. And at that time, I was selling through distributors. So I could go to them and say, okay, who are the top accounts that you would like to get into? I want to go out and find that business for you. And from the very beginning, I've had that attitude that has been extremely helpful. 

How can I help you? So they said, well, one account we'd really like to get into, it's called Blackstock lumber, and we've never been able to get into this store. So I was brand new with the company. One of the most exciting things about getting that job was that I had a brand new company car. They told me to go to the Buick dealership and show my driver's license, and they handed me over a new car. And I'll tell you, that was one of the greatest moments of my life. No offense to giving birth to me. The morning that I planned this out, I had my car packed with things that I might need. Although my goal was really to just get an appointment, I scoped the area out. It was very close to where I lived at the time, actually, in Seattle. And I drove by and saw where the parking lot was, the front door, everything. So I'd be all ready. 

So the morning I drove in, everything looked very different than when I had canvassed the area earlier, because they just got a big load of lumber. Hello. It's a lumber yard. And so every employee in the whole lumber yard was a man. And they all came out of the woodwork, so to speak. That's a good one. Woodwork, no pun intended, to unload all this lumber. And so there were all kinds of equipment and tractors or whatever with, hoisting these beams that are flying over my head. And I freaked out, basically, I freaked out. There were all these men, and when I drove in, I felt like every single one of them was staring at this 24 year old in a silver, buick, kind of a grandpa car now that I'm the age of a grandpa grandma, at least. But, yeah, it was so intimidating because I was so out of place. And I pulled into my parking spot. I'm giving myself a pep talk. All salespeople, we're our best cheerleaders, our own cheerleaders. 

Unfortunately, it's like an out of body experience. I saw my hand reach down and put the car in reverse, and I backed out of the parking place, and I sped away, cursing all the way. The language I was using could never be on your podcast. I was so mad, so frustrated with myself. but sales is all about overcoming fear. There are many things, many aspects, but I am surprised at how many even very experienced salespeople say, yeah, I'm still afraid to pick up the phone and call a big account or prospect. So the thing about that experience, though, is that when I drove away, the feeling in the pit of my stomach was the worst feeling I've ever had. I was just so angry at myself, frustrated. And then that worked for me, because the next day I went back, it might have been two days later. And, at that point, I thought, I don't care if a beam gets dropped on my head, if I trip in the parking lot, if the owner of the store throws me out, I don't care. There's nothing worse than feeling like I felt when I chickened out. So I think every salesperson has a story like that, that we freaked out, we couldn't do it, but we come back and we try again, and in the meantime, we get more comfortable with those situations.

Jack Hubbard: And you did, because you end up moving over to Walker manufacturing. And because of your efforts and your success, you became territory manager, and in the process, became known as muffler mama. There's got to be a story there.

Kay Miller: Oh, there is a story. There's a story for everything. Again, as I've looked back, on my career for the book, and now for my podcast, which we'll talk about, there are so many stories that I forgot about that are really pretty entertaining. But I'll start with the one that made me muffler mama. And that was, it came from the fact that I thought, well, okay, I'm a fish out of water. I am a woman in a male dominated industry. In some aspects, it was definitely an advantage. I was unique. I talk about being uncopyable. Oh, my gosh. They didn't see a woman coming through the door very often. and for the most part, there were some challenges. Like, you talk about safety and things like that. We can talk about more. But, a lot of the time, most of the time, yes, I had to prove myself. But once I did, the guys were awesome. They enjoyed the diversity. I think they still enjoy the diversity if you know your stuff and you want to work to help them. I have just been so impressed my whole career. Even now, some of my biggest fans are men, and I love it. It's great. I love to support other women. Women support me. I'm getting off track. 

In that case, I knew that I didn't have a lot of credibility with the product. Of course, I'd studied the product, the manuals they went through, and all the training they gave me. But how would I know what it would be like to use our product, an automotive muffler? So I went to one of the customers who bought from my distributor, and I got to know him. Great guy named Wayne. And one day, I said, Wayne, would you teach me how to install a muffler? Because I'd like to know. And the look on his face was pretty comical, because no male sales rep had ever asked him that, let alone a female sales rep. So he got a chuckle out of that, and he said, well, if you want to do that, I will teach you. But the first thing you have to do is go to a red wing shoe store and buy steel toe boots, which was kind of funny to me because I'd never been in a red wing shoe store. 

So I do all the things to prepare for that day. And when I went in, I put on this gear, this heavy gear, this big welding helmet. He showed me how to remove the old exhaust system, and there's a lot of pipes and clamps and all these things that have to be welded together. So he helped me do that. The welder was so heavy, I don't know how long I even held it, but it was a great experience. I hope people will buy the book because I have a very funny story that goes along with that. but that one story, 35 years later, has still followed me my whole entire career. And I recommend to anyone listening, when you want to set yourself apart, there are a lot of different ways you can do that. But if you can have a story like that, can you imagine how that story spread? People couldn't believe it, that I would go to that lake to learn the product, set my pride aside, wear a helmet that would just totally smash my hair down, my mascara is running down my face. It really gave me so much credibility. a fun experience, and it just, in a nutshell, still to this day, shows what I'm willing to do to understand and help my client.

Jack Hubbard: Well, we both alluded to this. In fact, we both said the word safety. And, when you're in sales, that's the last thing you think about. But you really have to. Given all of your experience in sales and now working with a lot of saleswomen, what's some advice you have? If I'm a female and I'm just starting out in sales, and I know there's a lot of things you could give them advice on, but give us a few things that you would teach a young female. Just getting started in sales.

Kay Miller: As I think about this question, it's almost surprising to me that I never really had a situation where I felt like I was in danger. This is before cell phones. Sorry, this is before cell phones. I'm walking around through parking lots, driving. I used to leave one account at the end of the day, and then I would do my driving so I could get to the next city early in the morning. Right. And looking back, I mean, my daughter's in sales, and if she does that stuff, I don't want to know. but at least I can track her phone or whatever. People had no idea where I was. One thing I would say, really, is that your mannerism and body language does a lot for you. And for me, it was really all down to business. 

One thing that happened, I remember it wasn't really a safety thing, but this is the kind of thing that I would do to fend off possible situations. I was actually at a sales, ah, meeting for our company for walker exhaust, and we were in this hospitality suite, just whatever. Eating and drinking, a lot of drinking. That's one thing I would say to women. Be very careful with how much alcohol you drink. A lot of them. In male dominated industries, I think it still goes on. There's a lot of drinking, so be very careful about how much alcohol you consume. One glass of wine, that's my limit. We were all sitting around this room, and one of the older sales territory managers sitting across the room, he calls across the room and he says, hey, kay, come over here for a sec. Sit on my lap. I want to tell you something. 

So all the eyes in the room went to kay, and I said, that's okay. I can hear you just fine from here. And the whole room burst out laughing. So there are things that you need to do to be safe. And I think one of them really is how you present yourself. Just the attitude of this is 100% business. yes, if you try not to walk across a dark parking lot. I think it's so great that we have cell phones now because you can be tracked, you can call for help. I mean, even non salespeople, they have these stories of somebody will rear end you. So you get out of the car and then they attack you or something. You get in your car and someone's hiding. So always look. 

So I think I should really be aware. but honestly, I have not ever had someone put me in a place of danger. In fact, especially the men that I worked with, I got to know, always took care of me, had my back. So, yes, be smart about it. and there are bad apples out there. I've always been impressed with how respectful the men I've worked with have been. Now, they might talk over me, and I might have to fight to get a word in, but they take care of me.

Jack Hubbard: Well, so you write this book, and a lot of it's based on your experiences and stories. And I want to talk about your daughter Kelly in a second. But, I love some of the ideas on how you can become uncopyable. Now, you're not going to tell them all, because I want people to buy this book. They need to buy, but give us a couple. What are some things people can do to be uncopyable in a commoditized world today?

Kay Miller: Well, we talked about sales being all about relationships. I feel that everyone should have an idea of their brand, promise, and tell the customer what that is. I think most of us say, well, yeah, we want to help the customer, we want to help their business, but I think one great idea is to say, you know what? You are my priority and I'm here to help you. The biggest compliment I've ever gotten is when someone wrote a letter to my boss and said, kay is an asset to our company. I don't know how we would get along without her. So to tell your customer, have a branding promise that sets you apart in the book. I do tell one story that I will reveal here, and that is, a very successful sales woman. I'm actually, like, morphing into a female sales professional. A sales professional. 

When she called on this prospect, she said, I will give you white glove service. You will not have to worry about anything. So those are when you make that brand. If you have, as we mentioned, a story, I've advised one group of women I worked with. They sold it kind of, it's a manufactured product for trucks. Okay. Kind of boring. Like, mufflers are kind of boring. However, it's all about the relationships, really. And I asked them, have you ever been out into your plant to see how this is made? And they said, no, we haven't gone out there. I said, go out there. Even if you don't help, just see it. And not only see it, but then you can tell your customers, this is how much I care. I went out to the manufacturing plant and I watched them put these things together. 

So those are some ways to be uncopyable. I think it's also important to reveal things about yourself. However, I feel like the biggest mistake that salespeople make is that we talk too much. Many of us like to talk. I love being on podcasts because I get to talk. But when I'm in sales, you find a common ground, and you have to have that connection briefly. And briefly is the key. Do they have dogs? Do they have kids? I was going to ask you, who's the picture in the background? Who is that person in the picture? Who is,

Jack Hubbard: It's an interesting question. I've had several people ask that, which shows your curiosity. It's excellent. My wife and I, about 20 years ago, started to go to antique stores, and we'd look around and she bought a face. And ever since then, we've bought faces. I have no idea who it is, but I do know it's from 1938. And I love hanging these up, just to remind me of good stuff. I've got one right in front of me who really looks like a really good friend from college. He was a banker. So, I enjoy that. And that level of curiosity is really important.I'm curious. You have a wonderful sales process, an uncopyable sales process. Again, I got to buy the book. But one of the things in the sales process that I've never seen before, ever said this way, is find your moose. Talk about finding your moose.

Kay Miller: Find your moose. That is really a key part of what has made me successful through the years. But I do want to touch on. I think that's fascinating that you get a picture of someone and then you are the one who imagines who that person was. That's cool. And of course, I also noticed in your background when you first got on, work hard and be nice to people. I love that saying. But in the chapter, we're not going to talk about that yet. But one of my chapters is like Sherlock, you're always looking for clues, and of course you're looking for someone's background. Do they have pictures of their family or the fish they caught? Or sports memorabilia, whatever. 

So there are many ways to learn about your customers so you can at least start to build that rapport. Your moose is your ideal target. And I'll go back to my muffler days because I was the number one salesperson and I had sales goals. And not only did I meet my sales goals, but I exceeded them by far. And of course, I give customers the very best service I can, but if I have 1000 customers, I can't do that. So I want the very best customers, the ones who will, I can serve. Yes. But let's be honest. Sales is about making money and making closing deals. So your moose is your very best prospect also, that will buy the most from you and that you can make the most profit from. But also, yes, paying their bills is great to work.

You define your moose and then, of course, there's the process of finding them. And I know you and Brynne, I've listened to some of your conversations about LinkedIn. That's one of the ways you need to find where they are. Are they networking in certain places? Are they going to meetings together? One of my clients actually happens to be in town today, up north, and they are attending the Pacific Northwest Aerospace association meeting. And they always, when they come into town, we have dinner, and guess what? They always buy because they love me. In fact, after I gave a presentation, they sent me this Stanley cup. So, I am going to go up there, and the CEO of the PNAA said, enough acronyms for you is a woman. A woman I actually interviewed on my podcast. 

So I will be networking, maybe not prospecting officially, but I will be meeting a lot of people because especially there will be women in sales. and I want to meet them. I want to learn about them. I'm fascinated. So defining your moose part of the qualification process as well, you have to figure out can they afford you those kinds of things that are more obvious. But moose, I think, is such a memorable way to phrase your target market. We've heard avatars is probably the common term that we've heard, but we want to be uncopyable. So we call them the moose. And there's a story behind that that you can read in the book of how we ever came up with that concept.

Jack Hubbard: That's great. Well, you were curious about my background and you alluded to that box behind you. I'm curious how you use that box. It must be something to do with your clients.

Kay Miller: Well, it is clients and especially prospects. Because if you are looking for a prospect and you have researched them and you know they'd be, from what you can tell, ah, a great fit. You need to separate yourself from the crowd because that moose is probably other people's moose. You need to get in the door is what I call it. That doesn't always mean getting in the door. It might mean a phone call or a return call or some type of interaction. So this is what we call our shock and awe, a box that we send to prospects. We have orange sunglasses. Orange sunglasses. We have our books. We have all kinds of goodies that we put in there. We have. Okay, I have to show you this one. This is cool. Can you hear me by the way? It says turn up my volume. Ok. I found this. I found it actually on Amazon. It's a little shot, ah, glass with a mousse on it. That's orange.

Jack Hubbard: Oh, I love that.

Kay Miller: It's amazing what you can find when you google it. So I found it on Amazon and then I found a place where we could buy these in bulk. A dollar 19. How awesome is that? So that is one of my many get in the door tricks. And again, you have to know your moose. You have to know that that customer could, your prospect could become a great customer because then you can spend some money to separate yourself from the crowd.

Jack Hubbard: So I think it's important for bankers to know that are watching this program and others that your moose is not moose, I guess is the plural of moose. Is not a bunch of moose. It is this moose. And you're going to send that box not to every moose, but to the right moose. And so I say to bankers, don't do the same thing for every moose. Be different for everyone. And if you've got a really quality prospect, then that kind of box is a really important thing for you to do. It also helps your personal brand.

So let me jump back. I want to talk about personal brand, because when you had a daughter, she somehow gravitated toward golf, which fascinates me, and I love it. And she went through college as a college golfer, and now she's in sales. And I'm curious about her brand and how she kind of interweaves golf into sales. There's a lot of similarities there, I think.

Kay Miller: Right? And, yeah, we started her golfing very young. my husband, who is older than me, maybe closer to your age, he long ago was on the PGA golf tour. It was totally different back then. So we started her in golf. She, by the time she was 13, she said, I want to earn a golf scholarship. And later I asked, I said, why do you think you chose golf? And she said, mom, I'm not that coordinated. I needed a sport where the ball didn't move. I thought that was really funny. she did. She went through college. Now, here's the thing. She works in the golf industry. She works for Callaway. 

Actually, she's recently changed to a different job, but in that industry still. She works in the golf industry. One of the ways that she can be uncopyable is that she is an awesome golfer. She knows, very. Her name is Kelly, and she always says it's Kelly with a y. Well, when she was inside sales customer service, which in the very beginning, she would email people and they always would assume she was a guy. One time, she set up a whole daddy daughter golf trip to Bandon dunes, which is one of the top golf courses. It's in Oregon. And he got her special golf privileges. All these different things. And when she walked in the door, she said, I'm Kelly, and this is my dad. He's like, you are Kelly. 

Now, she happens to be beautiful, but I'm also biased. But the knowledge that she has and the credibility that she has really sets her apart. She is also, very customer oriented. How can I help your business? But in her case, she can do what very few women can do to play at that level. So she gets a ton of respect. And you mentioned something else earlier. We're probably getting too close to the end of the interview, but golf and I think all sports are so great, such a great comparison. To sales, for the bankers listening, for any sales people listening, this takes real tenacity. You've got to stick with it. You've got to get through adversity. I remember one time, and I don't know, are you a golfer by chance?

Jack Hubbard: Absolutely. Avid.

Kay Miller: Great. Avid. Good. Well, one time in high school, there was a coach watching, of course, which made her very nervous. She got into a sand trap, one of those sand traps, I feel, that were designed by the devil that have railroad ties around the edge. And she was right next to that railroad tie. Well, she didn't make the wisest decision. She tries to get out over the railroad ties. Doesn't work. Can't remember the exact progression of this. Maybe try it again. This, that, the other thing. She made a ten on that hole. It was hole number four at the home course. I know all this. I could just remember, I could remember how I felt like I was going to throw up. And she finally got off that it was a par three, and she made a ten. She made a ten. 

She played every other hole after that, and before that, even par. And the golf coach gave her an offer, because that's the kind of attitude, when you make a golf swing, you have to forget your last swing. You have to totally erase it from your mind. It's a new game now. This stroke, this is all that matters. So when you are in sales, yes, celebrate the highs. Give yourself a moment to wallow in the pit of despair when you screw up. But then, okay, what's next? So I think golf and sports are just really super training for sales and just that whole mentality. We could go on and on. I do talk about sports in the book, too, so, yes, I hope your listeners, please buy the book. It's awesome.

Jack Hubbard: And chapter seven is very cool. It talks about being like Sherlock Holmes.So, I know we only have a couple more minutes, and I want to talk about your podcast, but talk about the Sherlock Holmes chapter a little.

Kay Miller: You know, part of it is, like I mentioned before, I'm looking at your background. but with Sherlock Holmes, it's not necessarily just asking the customer, what is it that you want? What would you like? The customer doesn't know you are an expert. They think they know. They've gone on the Internet, they've looked everything up. They think that they know exactly what they want and need. But oftentimes, I won't say every time, oftentimes they don't, because they don't know what you know. So you really need to go beyond just what this product is going to do in this situation and look at their whole entire business. I just talked to one customer who went in, one of his sales reps, went into a facility and noticed that they didn't have certain kinds of products that they could sell him in addition. 

So by going into their business and observing what they had and didn't have, it opened up a whole new possibility for selling more items. So there are a lot of different aspects to that, but I think it sounds like you're nodding your head so you agree. You don't just ask your customer, what do you need? What are you looking for? You need to dig down deeper, look for clues, ask questions, observe things that other people don't observe, and you can end up serving them better, but also selling more products.

Jack Hubbard: Well, that and more is in this book. But I can't let you go without talking about uncopyable women in sales. Your podcast, I think it's been going for a few months now. I turned my daughter on. She loves it. talk about your podcast, some of your guests. How can people find it?

Kay Miller: So, the podcast, thank you for asking. Thank you very much. The podcast is called Uncopyable Women in Sales. You can find it on any podcast platform. I think the biggest surprise for me is how much I'm learning. I'm learning from my guests, and my guests range from Gen Z, 24 years old. I'm going to have her on again, actually, this one woman named Kinsey, she's so great at AI and using all these technical tools like seamless AI, where you can get someone's phone number, all these great tools that she can share. So I have everyone from her to. I have a woman who is over 80 and owns her own business, a very successful business. All of them have sales backgrounds, but the industries, the aeronautics industry, the RV industry, I've had realtors, lots of different women in different industries and ages. I'm looking for even more diversity in races, and I want to learn from all different women about the sales process. I think it's fascinating. I think anyone who listens will not only learn and be reminded of things they might have known, learn new things, but also get really encouraged and inspired by the stories of these women. So I invite people to find that podcast, uncopyable women in sales.

Jack Hubbard: It's outstanding. See all those books behind Kay. You need to buy one of those. Go get those.

Kay Miller: I love it.

Jack Hubbard: She'll autograph it for you.

How do people get a hold of you? Kay, this has been a fascinating conversation. How do people get a hold of you on LinkedIn, emai,l etc.

Kay Miller: LinkedIn. Okay, I just forgot what my LinkedIn is, it's like LinkedIn. Miller K. I believe. I don't know if you can look that up while we're doing that. I think it's just Miller K. So LinkedIn, I'd love to have you connect and or follow. I will connect with people. Find me on LinkedIn and you can find me at uncopyablesales.com and if you go to uncopyablesales.com/chapters, you can download two free chapters of the book and I encourage you to do that. Then you'll get a taste of what this is and hopefully want to buy it after that. And then you can also email me, [email protected] awesome. Did you happen to find my LinkedIn?

Jack Hubbard: It is. It's Miller K. It's Miller K. So.

Kay Miller: I got on early and got Miller K. So find me on LinkedIn.

Jack Hubbard: Miller K. You got to buy this book, everybody. It's a wonderful, wonderful book. Very practical. I highly recommend it. And this has been fun. Kay, I'm glad Larry Levine introduced us and I'm grateful to see you.

Kay Miller: Great. You're a wonderful interviewer. You made me shine. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Outro: Thanks for listening to this episode of Jack Rants with Modern Bankers with my great guest, Kay Miller. Go get the book. Uncopyable Sales Secrets. Phenomenal. This and every program is brought to you by our great friends at Vertical IQ and Relpro. Join us next time for more special guests, bringing you marketing, sales, and leadership insights, as well as a lot of ideas that provide your banker credit union that competitive edge you need to succeed. Now don't forget, this LinkedIn live show is also a podcast. Subscribe to get it and get the latest episodes. Every episode of Jack Rants with Modern Bankers. And please, if you would, leave us a review. We're on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, and others along with iHeartRadio too. Visit our website as well themodernbanker.com for more information. And please don't forget to sign up for that free public library at themodernbanker.com./publiclibrary . And also remember this, make today and every day a great client.